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Carla King interviews publisher Angela Engel to give you insights about how to publish with The Collective Book Studio, a hybrid/custom press.

Nonfiction Authors Association Podcast | February 01, 2023

So read your book out loud. Read it at first galley, because then you even have a lot more time to change it in second galley, right? So that is my biggest advice for authors–when you want to commit to a book, know that this is going to be a year of your life. Treat it just like you would like, ‘Hey, I’m doing a life coach. I’m getting a career coach. I’m taking this time out for myself. This is my goal.’
-Angela Engel

The interview is on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and all the usual podcast channels and will also be streamed on Youtube, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter. Can’t make it live? Catch the recording later. See you there!

About Angela Engel

Angela Engel launched The Collective Book Studio to build a different kind of publishing business, one that adhered to the author’s vision every step of the way. Her experience in traditional publishing allows her to introduce beautiful books into the world, and she brings her passion for reading and sharing new ideas into every new project she undertakes. For many years she worked in sales and marketing for nationally known category leaders in publishing, including Chronicle Books, Ten Speed Press, Cameron + Company, Dwell Studio, and Moleskine. She has sold to key national and international retailers such as Amazon, Costco, Nordstrom, and Target and became a sought-after expert in the industry. Now, with The Collective Book Studio, she has the opportunity to provide authors the support they need to get a book out into the world, from start to finish.

Nonfiction Authors Podcast: Angela Engel

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Show Notes

Links

In this episode…

  • What the Collective Book Studio offers to authors.
  • The difference between a partnership publisher and traditional press/hybrid press.
  • An idea of what fees to expect when working with a partnership publisher.
  • The process of working with The Collective Book Studio.
  • Timeline and fees to expect when working with The Collective Book Studio.
  • How The Collective Book Studio works with authors to ensure their books are marketed effectively.
  • A list of book genres published by The Book Collective Studio.
  • How The Book Collective Studio produces ebooks.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the interview series for the Nonfiction Authors Association. Today’s session is with Angela Engel and we will be talking about how to publish with The Book Collective Studio. I’m Carla King, your host, and I’m happy to have you with us today. This interview will last only 30 minutes and you can find the replay on our Nonfiction Authors Association website and social media platforms including YouTube, and wherever you listen to podcasts.

And now I’d like to introduce our guest.

Angela Engel launched The Collective Book Studio to build a different kind of publishing business, one that adhered to the author’s vision every step of the way. Her experience in traditional publishing allows her to introduce beautiful books into the world, and she brings her passion for reading and sharing new ideas into every new project she undertakes. For many years she worked in sales and marketing for nationally known category leaders in publishing, including Chronicle Books, Ten Speed Press, Cameron + Company, Dwell Studio, and Moleskine. She has sold to key national and international retailers such as Amazon, Costco, Nordstrom, and Target and became a sought-after expert in the industry. Now, with The Collective Book Studio, she has the opportunity to provide authors the support they need to get a book out into the world, from start to finish.

Hi, Angela. Welcome to the podcast.

Angela Engel  1:11  

Hi, Carla. Thank you for having me. It’s really a treat to be part of this.

Carla King  1:17  

First, can you tell us about your company? When you founded it, and what kind of company it is? Are we going to be talking hybrid partnership? Traditional?

Angela Engel  1:26  

Yeah. So it’s The Collective Book Studio. My vision was four years ago. It is truly a collective–it’s a group of insiders in publishing that have come together to form a company with the best, I think, that traditional offers. And yet have an ability to be more agile, quicker to market, and a different type of contract for an author. An author who I see, especially in the nonfiction space, which is what I’m speaking on. That is my background–nonfiction.

I always say, when people try to submit something–a fiction novel–I’m like, ‘I’m not the right publisher for you.’ What I do know how to do is really to shape a nonfiction, self help, food, lifestyle, home ec, gardening book. And many of these authors have a business already. And so they have a platform. And traditional publishing takes three to five years, often, and sometimes, as people know, even longer if you don’t have an agent. And people can’t wait. So that was my idea–to be able to provide something that I know Amazon and self-publishing can never provide, which is the brain power and the creativity of people who have publishing inside knowledge, and have gone to school for it.

Carla King  2:53  

Right. And so you’re a partnership publisher. What does that mean versus a traditional press or a hybrid press?

Angela Engel  3:03  

So I call myself partnership publishing with hybrid contracts, meaning that the author does have to bring something to the table. And honestly, in traditional publishing, that is very common anyway–especially in nonfiction. I came from Ten Speed Press, which was bought by Random House over 10+ years ago. I worked at Chronicle Books, and both had a custom publishing arm. And so many of those projects were paid projects, and then they would go into the trade. So I took that idea of custom publishing, and just said, ‘Hey, if a brand like Twinkies or Hostess can pay for a cookbook, or a restaurant can pay for a cookbook, why can’t everybody have that access to such a strong publishing arm?’ And part of that publishing arm has to also deal with distribution. So that was part of what I also offer–is traditional distribution, as well as creating the book.

Carla King 3:26

And that’s hard for authors who plan to publish quickly and do it via the self publishing route. Now, I read something–I think on your website or somewhere–that you do accept previously self published books sometimes? Can you talk about that a little bit?

Angela Engel 4:21

We do. But we don’t just offer distribution services. There’s just no way. And I hate turning people away, because we only take 5% of our overall submissions, and we get hundreds and hundreds of submissions. We take very few. This is the deal. Are you a publisher when you self publish? Because there are so many things we notice, and it’s not just a barcode or an ISBN, but it’s everything when you go to market. It’s tactile. It’s the embossing, it’s the debossing, it’s the structure. It is so many parts of the book that we put together, that even if you’re self publishing we take it on. It means that you have to be committed to being with a publisher to change the work. And some people–that doesn’t work for. And we totally get that. I have been quoted to say, ‘Our authors choose us as much as we choose them.’ It’s a true partnership.

Carla King  5:24  

So an author who’s maybe not having a lot of success with their book–maybe they were in a hurry, but they have a good platform, and they have a business, and they’re willing to put in the work–maybe could come to you for help in improving that book? Improving the formatting, the cover. And maybe get your help, too, with the way it’s marketed and promoted?

Angela Engel  5:44  

Correct. Yes, we did it with a great book called–I don’t remember the self published title, but we retitled it ‘Parenting With Sanity and Joy.’ And it actually got into Target brick and mortar stores on a Mother’s Day program–not target.com. Everyone can get on that, just like Amazon and Walmart, and all those other dot coms. I’m talking in store. So she came to me–one of my very first clients, Sue Groner–and she had self published this book. And the content was really great–the content was great. But the illustration, the package–there were things about the structure. And we repackaged it, we did it two color, we added a ribbon, it was just so simple. It was 101 simple strategies–parenting strategies. And she’s a parenting coach with a platform.

So yes, we redo it. But she was also open to investing in buying that illustrated art, right? So our authors own their intellectual property–their IP. Meaning, when you come to us, we create a creative fee. That’s what I say is the hybrid contract. But then you own the artwork, you own the photography, and you can really basically take that and use that for your business, for your website, for your Instagram. We’ve had our books in Real Simple magazine, in Parents, New York Times, LA Times. I can tell you, the reporters really love what we do. Because we’re also not asking to get paid to have that article or that art in. I see that as a win–we don’t pay for the press, and the press doesn’t have to pay us. It’s transactional, and true partnership in media.

Carla King  7:26  

And you have a lot of experience–big box store sales, and bulk book sales, which I’m sure brings a lot to the authors that you’re with. I mean, I’d love to be able to go to Costco, and Target, and Walmart–in the stores right now. We’re recording this right before the holiday season.

Angela Engel  7:46  

I have to tell you–the returns risk is very high. But when you can get the package right, and you can make it incredible, and you get your market right, it works. I have to tell you, I’ve seen things just work. And I think that that’s the difference. I can look at BookScan, which is where we see what books are selling through the cash register. I can do a lot of research. I always tell authors, ‘Okay, authors. Don’t just do your research online. Go into your favorite independent bookstore, go into a big box store, go into a specialty store, go into even a World Market/Cost Plus if you think your book should be there. If you think your book should be in FedEx/Kinkos, go in there. Go where you think your book should be sold, and see what they’re buying.’ And I do that. I urge my authors to do that. I urge my designers to do that. What I do is comparative shop, and I pick up books. And I understand what’s in the marketplace.

And that’s, I think the gift, and the magic that yes, authors are going to get with us what you’re not going to get with other places. I probably have 20+ years of experience, of just knowing what can work in those stores. We get a submission–the more that authors have done that research, the more likely we’re going to pick it up and really want to at least talk to the author. You have no idea how many people reach me over LinkedIn, or reach me on an email, and they’re like, ‘Can I just have 30 minutes? Can I have a phone call?’ And I’m like, ‘I don’t even know what your book is about.’  If you want to have a call with me–and we don’t pay for our submissions to look at anything. I actually would say that’s a huge red flag. If a publisher is asking an author, ‘Hey, we charge X amount to review your submission.’ No way. We’re a publisher. We want content. We want great content. We’re in partnership together. But I can’t help you if you haven’t submitted properly.

Carla King  10:00  

The proposal, and the query letter, and all that. So let’s talk about that process of how you work with authors. But first, what is the contract? I know hybrid, you pay $8,000-$15,000. Traditional, you’re supposedly gonna get in advance–maybe a little bit nowadays–less than we ever used to before. What is your model?

Angela Engel  10:27  

So that really varies, based on what they’re bringing to the table. So we have, for example, a cookbook coming out in spring 2024. She is incredible. She is a food photographer, and writes for Sunset Magazine, Gourmet magazine, Food and Wine. That’s her day job. However, she really wanted to own her photography. She did not want to be traditionally published, and for various reasons, right? Because she could then produce a cookbook with us, use that content, and then sell it to all those different magazines. Again, I’m a fluid partner. A very different partner than traditional publishing. So I’m so excited–it’s a plant-forward Jewish cooking cookbook. Her fee–she doesn’t have to pay for a stylist, and a photographer, and stuff, right? So it’s very different than another cookbook. I could tell you, [another cookbook] can cost somebody $50,000 to produce because of the sheer photography work that it takes, right? So editorial also really varies.

So we could get an incredibly beautifully written manuscript–you’re a really refined writer, you’ve worked with a book coach, whatever. You are an incredible writer. That’s not necessarily how it works in the nonfiction world. You might have done TED Talks and whatever, but how to make it into an actual book is difficult. So that can really vary. That fee can, all in, I’d say–with editorial design anything–my fees range about $9000-$18,000, depending. And I sometimes say that–even if you don’t have a ton of illustrations, maybe we have to spend $5,000-$8,000 more on a developmental editor, on a copy editor, on a proofreader, just because of the sheer volume of the words.

And we also–which is very different than some of the hybrid publishing houses–they might take it and just do a line edit, a copy edit, and proofread. We don’t do that. Every single one of our projects, you have a dedicated developmental editor and project editor on them. Every single one. So that’s really the bulk of what they’re paying for. Is something like that. And then there’s a whole other side called ghostwriting. And that, we pair people with. And that’s a different fee. So expensive. And we actually, honestly, really ask that they almost do that separately, and come back to us. Anywhere between $10,000-$80,000. I’m just letting people know.

Carla King  13:29  

And more. Like, wow, it blows my mind when I’ve heard [that] some of these famous CEOs and politicians have paid so much for that.

Angela Engel  13:39  

Yep. So they use their advance that way. That is also a buried thing–some of these advances that you hear that are six figure advances–over half of that’s gonna go to a ghostwriter.

Carla King  13:51  

Interesting. Okay, good. I won’t be jealous anymore.

Angela Engel  13:55  

I mean, yes, maybe there’s that one case it doesn’t need to. But come on, often people will use their advance to pay for something.

Carla King  14:07  

So here’s what I understand about how to work with you. First, do your comparable analysis, get you a proposal, and then I think I heard that you take it to a dev editor first, even before you accept it–if you like the idea. Is that how that works?

Angela Engel  14:26  

So I have a Submissions/Acquisitions department. I have a Director of Acquisitions. She comes from a literary agency out of New York–Elizabeth Saake. We met at Chronicle Books. She did sub writes, she sold Borders–when they were around, she sold Williams Sonoma. So she’s got a really good head for both submissions, as well as what could possibly work for us. So she goes through everything. Even if I get it, it still goes through her. And I gotta tell you, sometimes it’s a slam dunk. We both love it. We think of the developmental editor, but we don’t even need the developmental editor’s advice, right? She’s an acquiring editor, so she’s able to do that. We sometimes will run it by our managing ed, Dean Burrell, who was at Chronicle for 20 years, and say, ‘Hey, what do you think?’ But then there are times where we definitely need to run this by–depending on the category–one of the developmental editors that we’re thinking about.Children’s [books], we do that a lot. We definitely do that a lot.

Carla King  15:37  

And then what happens? So say, okay, that everybody loves it. Then you sign the contract, you charge the money, which could be what? 15k, or 8k, 20k?

Angela Engel  15:48  

We never charge everything upfront. Unless I really have to fast track it–which I have done–and get the book out within a year. If it’s 12 months, I collect half of the creative fee. Because we have to hire everybody so much faster, right? And put a deposit on the designer. Don’t forget, I offset everything. I’m not print on demand. So I have to secure paper, we’ve got to start working on dummies, and my production guy. So usually, typically, it’s 15-18 months for us from signed contract to market, which is extremely fast already. And then that way, it’s a third, a third, a third. We take a third down, so I can start paying their editor. They start working on all of that then. When their manuscript comes in, I collect another third. And the final third is due when we’re okay to press, or pre-press–we’re going into that process with the printer. It’s about a year for the creative fee process.

Many of my authors–the majority all children’s books publishers–have done Kickstarter campaigns. Extremely successful–have raised $10,000 and more. We really help with assets. I don’t charge any extra. My attitude is–if we really want the book, we want authors not to feel strapped. So we will help promote your Kickstarter. And we’ve done an IFundWomen campaign–we raised over $20,000+ for a book called ‘Eat Cake For Breakfast’ that gives back to UCSF Oakland Children’s Hospital. We really wanted to give 100% of the proceeds back there. So I’m very open when authors come–again, it’s a partnership–to say, ‘Hey, Angela, how am I going to fundraise for this?’

And I always say, also, if you can sell 500 books on your own–through your courses, through your speaking engagements, we are the right organization for you. We are the right publisher. If you can’t, we’re just not going to be. Because you have to be also entrepreneurial yourself. 500 books on your own means conferences, speaking engagements, your coursework. Whatever that is, that’s very, very different than the book trade. I can sell 500 copies of the book trade. If I don’t feel confident that I can sell 3500 to 4000 copies of a book, I’m not going to fly with it. It’s way too expensive for me, then, to go into it–for my staff and the overhead I have.

Carla King  18:34  

That’s fair. I mean, that’s a lot of children’s books, I have to say. It doesn’t seem like it’s so much for a business book, or a psychology, or a health or sports book. But it does seem like a lot for a children’s book.

Angela Engel  18:46  

Yeah. Well, you’d be surprised about the people who are listening who have self published [200-400 books]. So that’s why I’m going to say it’s a risk for all of us. But if you feel, through your talent, you can take 500, then I can sell another, 3000-3500. Then I’m the right publisher for you.

Carla King  19:09  

Excellent. So take us through that journey. So you have accepted the author, and then what happens? You work on the editing. What else do you work on–apart and together? What does the author have responsibility for, and what do you have responsibility for?

Angela Engel  19:25  

Well the author has to finish their manuscript. I am serious. I have some amazing books–nonfiction adult books–that I want to publish. Like, I’m begging these authors to finish their manuscript, and they just haven’t. Does the contract say they owe me the full creative fee, even if? Yes. But I haven’t collected. I want the book eventually on our list. But that’s the first step. Please work with your developmental editor. Please work on your manuscript. Writing a book is hard. It’s hard work. And so you also have to set the time to do it. We will push you, push you, but we are not writing the book for you. So that’s the number one.

The number two is review your galleys, don’t just say, ‘Oh, I looked at it.’ And then we got to press. Only you fully understand what you were trying to say. So even a copy editor, proofer, whatever–if it didn’t feel quite right for you–it might be grammatically right. But you will know more if there’s an error there. And so I really encourage authors to take the time to–in the schedule, when we say, ‘Hey, you’ve got a week or two weeks to turn this around.’ Block your schedule out. You know what the schedule is. That’s also really your responsibility. I often say–especially for business books, self help books–if you’re interested in producing an audiobook, read your book to yourself out loud. At first galley. Because you’re going to notice things. When we read out loud, we notice mistakes more than when we read in our head. When we read in our head, we actually skip words and sentences that we don’t even notice.

Carla King  21:07  

That’s great advice. More and more people are sending their books for audiobook production. They get it back and they’re like, ‘Did I write that?’ And then they’ve already spent $4,000 for the voice talent, right?

Angela Engel  21:22  

Yes, yes. So read your book out loud. Read it at first galley, because then you even have a lot more time to change it in second galley, right? So that is my biggest advice for authors–when you want to commit to a book, know that this is going to be a year of your life. Treat it just like you would like, ‘Hey, I’m doing a life coach. I’m getting a career coach. I’m taking this time out for myself. This is my goal.’ I ran a marathon before I had kids. That was my biggest goal. I had one run in my life. It was so much work to train, and I knew that. I was like, ‘If I’m going to have kids, I’m not going to have time to run a marathon.’ So it’s the same with writing a book. You have to block out when you’re going to train for the marathon. You have to block out your writing time.

Carla King  22:14  

And what about all the other tasks that happen? Like social media marketing. and preparing for promotion?

Angela Engel  22:19  

Again–with nonfiction authors, the cool part about your book is, it doesn’t get old in the same way as a novel or some of the memoir stuff. It’s just really hard, I think. You have to put a pub date, a pub date, a pub date, right? The cool thing about nonfiction–if you always have a platform or something, it doesn’t get old. So you have to remember that. It’s a marathon. Again, we use this analogy. Meaning you can’t just be like, ‘Oh, I pushed the book out, I put out a couple of social media posts, a couple emails past pub date. I paid for a PR firm for a month and I’m done.’ No, it does not work that way. You have to work extremely hard prior to pub date, working on a launch team, working on who is your core–maybe a beta group of reading your galley, your art. Who is the team that’s going to start your Amazon and your Goodreads reviews right away? Are you signing up for NetGalley? We will come up with the best marketing package. It’s not something I say you have to sign on to to work with us. But I will give authors advice.

We do a lot of wholesale marketing that an author does not have to pay for. For example, there’s a catalog called Edelweiss. Maybe people know it on here. Every single one of our titles is downloadable DRC. I pay a special membership outside of my distributor, which is Independent Publishers Group–IPG. Every single one of my titles has a downloadable arc. You have to pay for every single one of those arcs. So many independent or small publishers don’t even do that. So I do a lot of subtle marketing that I feel is necessary to launch you into wholesale.

That said, Google ads, Facebook ads, Instagram ads–you got to do that on your own. No publisher is going to do that also for you on your platform. I had one client say, ‘Well, I paid all this money to develop my website.’ And I had no idea what that had to do with my creative fee. Because, again, authors, no publisher–Random House, HarperCollins,  Simon & Schuster–is paying to develop your website. You won’t even get a book deal. You need to put the money in to develop your website, to develop your platform. That’s the same advice I’m going to have for them, whether you’re going hybrid, traditional, self, or partnership. You have to think about your own marketing plan. And I would probably say for a nonfiction adult author–think about $5,000-$10,000 that you also need to spend developing that. And many authors obviously do that out of their advance that they get from a traditional house.

Carla King  25:23  

Sure. Okay. Well, in the time that we have left, let’s go over the kinds of books that you do publish. I’m looking at The Collective Book Studio. I see business and career development, children’s, family fun and activity, food and cooking, lifestyle and entertainment, novelty, gift, and journals–that’s interesting, journals, too–parenting and education, photography, art, and design, travel, and regional guide, self help and wellness. That’s a lot. You’re covering a lot there.

Angela Engel  25:57  

Social emotional learning is so important now more than ever. So if people have that kind of background, they’re actually going to get a lot of credit writing children’s books right now. It’s really a strong market for them.

Carla King  26:14  

And I didn’t ask you about ebooks. I know you focus on print because your books are so highly produced. Do you ever do ebooks?

Angela Engel  26:23  

Yeah, we do ebooks for all of our titles. You almost have to, because of the algorithm on Amazon now. So we produce them. I just include it in the creative fee–I don’t charge any extra. I don’t try to make any money for the author. I actually give the author’s 55% royalty rates on their ebooks. It’s just added money though. I have one author– ‘B is for Bagel’ –she sold 1200 of her ebooks. We had no idea. It’s a cute little iPad thing, I guess. And there’s recipes in the back. And 52 Shabbat–our cookbooks actually in ebook form are selling.

Carla King  27:02  

What is the most favorite part of your journey as a publisher?

Angela Engel  27:07  

Oh, I love that. That will make me more positive. You know, I feel sometimes I’m like–I’m not trying to be negative. And I really want everyone who hears this podcast–it doesn’t cost you anything to submit. Just submit. If you think that I may be a right fit. What is the worst anyone can ever tell you? No. And that’s not so bad. You’re totally fine. Just submit. So the favorite part of my journey–I actually, truly, am an optimist. That is in my nature.

I read a book that Ten Speed Press published: ‘What Color Is Your Parachute?’ by Richard Bolles. And I think I’m purple. Look, I have purple earrings on today. I love purple. I think that’s the color of my parachute. I’m very entrepreneurial. Actually, when I founded this business, I thought I needed a co-founder, and all this stuff. It was the amount of people that surrounded me–I think that’s the best part of my journey. I have a friend–a colleague from Chronicle–Nancy Dean, who said to me, ‘Angela, anytime you were in a room, you were entrepreneurial. That’s just who you are by nature.’ I just went out with Penny–who was a former buyer from Costco–and I saw her at a convention at Pacific Northwest Booksellers Association, and we had lunch together.

The amount of people that have been so supportive of my press–colleagues of mine that are now at Simon and Schuster. I have friends at Gibbs Smith. I feel so supported. I think we met, Carla, at the Bay Area Book Festival. And I’m doing an event with the Bay Area Book Festival–with one of our authors in the Magnes Museum–on December 8. I think that’s the best part of this 20+ career that I’ve had in publishing in the Bay Area–is that I fell into it really lucky.

I was a Comparative Lit and Creative Writing major from the University of Oregon, and I applied for a marketing job at Publishers Group West, which is now part of Ingram. And then I wrote a letter to Phil Wood, because I read ‘What Color Is Your Parachute?’ He did not have the job fit for me. But I convinced him, through my letter, that there was a job at Ten Speed Press for me. So he asked me to come in, and they created a job–I was in my 20’s–for a mass market, big box store rep sales person.

This is my biggest advice–if I hadn’t read that nonfiction book, I probably would have never written that letter. And that changed my life. So if you’re a nonfiction author, and you have a message, and you believe it really can help change people’s lives–because that’s the biggest thing of a nonfiction author versus a memoir, right? A nonfiction–you have a problem you think that you know how to solve. And you are going to, then, let other human beings figure out that they can solve that problem, too, for themselves. That’s the trick to a great nonfiction book. And that’s the submission I get. I literally still get goosebumps when I read really good nonfiction. I love nonfiction books that really, I do believe, change people’s lives.

Carla King  30:46  

Thanks for that, Angela. That’s very inspiring.

Angela Engel  30:53  

It’s true. I was on the marketing campaign for the Four Agreements. I just sold ‘The Power of Now.’ I’ve just had such a blessed career. And so I think by me being able to provide that same kind of coalescing for other people as they want to almost birth their book, right? I’m just lucky to do that.

Carla King  31:25  

Well, tell us where we can find you on the internet, and on all the socials. And if you’re up to anything next, or doing an appearance in 2023, let us know about that.

Angela Engel  31:37  

I think I’m going to be actually speaking at a Fireside Chat with Brooke Warner, a publisher of She Writes Press for The Women In Publishing Summit. I think that’s in March, I may be on a panel for the IBPA’s also, down in San Diego. I applied with a bunch of other really cool publishing folks to talk about the ins and outs of publishing. So I’m sure that panel will come together. I’ll probably do something, hopefully, with the Bay Area Book Festival, since I’m located here in Oakland, California. I love LinkedIn. People message me on LinkedIn. Just send me a pitch or something, versus a quick phone call. That’s the only ask.

thecollectivebook.studio is our website. On Instagram, we’re really active. You can just do @thecollectivebookstudio. Because we’re so visual and have such fun things, I really love being active on Instagram. Probably our Twitter account is not so much. I know about BookTok and TikTok. There’s a new app called Copper that I’m interested in, that I would have author’s check out. If you don’t want to dance around TikTok, it’s a brand new app that I just recently did a live virtual event, which is really interesting–how to connect authors with readers. It’s really cool. You can put together reading lists. And then also, if you’re a writer, Carla, and you’ve written stuff, you can put your books on there and connect with readers and other authors. It’s cool.

Carla King  33:09  

Great. Well, thanks for that final tip. And thank you for being our guest today, Angela.

Angela Engel  33:15  

Oh, well, I’m so happy that we met at the Bay Area Book Festival and you reached out.

Carla King  33:19  

And thank you to our listeners for joining us today and every week. For a list of guests and topics just check our schedule on the site, use your favorite search engine, or better yet, sign up for our mailing list at NonfictionAuthorsAssociation.com.

Quotes from our guest

I always tell authors, ‘Okay, authors. Don’t just do your research online. Go into your favorite independent bookstore, go into a big box store, go into a specialty store, even into a World Market/Cost Plus if you think your book should be there. If you think your book should be in FedEx/Kinkos, go in there. Go where you think your book should be sold, and see what they’re buying.’ 

‘And I always say, also, if you can sell 500 books on your own–through your courses, through your speaking engagements, we are the right organization for you. We are the right publisher.’

So read your book out loud. Read it at first galley, because then you even have a lot more time to change it in second galley, right? So that is my biggest advice for authors–when you want to commit to a book, know that this is going to be a year of your life. Treat it just like you would like, ‘Hey, I’m doing a life coach. I’m getting a career coach. I’m taking this time out for myself. This is my goal.’ 

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