Podcast Interview: Catarina Rivera, Blindish Latina 05-03-2023 - About ableist language and how to avoid it in our writing and speech

Carla King interviews Catarina Rivera, The Blindish Latina about ableist language and how to avoid it in our writing and speech.

Nonfiction Authors Association Podcast | May 3, 2023

“There’s nothing bad or wrong about having a disability. When you see people that say, ‘Oh, we need to come up with another term for it.’ That’s because of this inherent, underlying assumption that disability is negative, or disability is bad, and we need to avoid invoking that. And that rests on the foundation of ableism.”
-Catarina Rivera

About Catarina Rivera

Catarina Rivera, MSEd, MPH, CPACC is a public speaker and DEI consultant with over 14 years of experience in the public sector. Catarina works with companies to improve accessibility and inclusion, retain employees, and design better products. She is the founder of Blindish Latina, a platform smashing disability stigmas through storytelling and advocacy. Catarina has worn hearing aids from a young age and was diagnosed with a progressive vision disability at 17 years old. She has a BA from Duke University, an MSEd from Bank Street College of Education, and an MPH from Hunter College. Catarina is a Certified Professional in Accessibility Core Competencies (IAAP).

She is a member of RespectAbility’s National Disability Speakers Bureau and KeyNote Women’s Global Speakers Directory. Catarina is a TEDx speaker. She has been featured in Nasdaq, Authority Magazine, Forbes, ABC News Live, and as one of the top 21 DEI influencers of 2021. Catarina was also named one of LinkedIn’s Top Voices in Disability Advocacy in 2022. Catarina is committed to social justice.

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Show Notes

Links

In this episode…

DEI and other important definitions.
The concept of person first rather than identity first language.
Respectful ways to refer to people with disabilities in speech and writing.
Common microaggressions seen in writing (see chart below for terms to avoid and suggested alternative terms)
Recommended resources for finding correct DEI terms.
How creating more accessibility in your marketing can boost SEO.
How alt text can be used on websites and blog posts.

Term to avoid	Suggested alternative
victim, survivor	person who has experienced… person who has been impacted by…
wheelchair-bound	person who uses a wheelchair
mentally ill	person living with a mental health condition person with a mental disorder person with a mental illness
the elderly elderly people the aged aging dependents seniors senior citizens	older adults older people persons 65 years and older the older population Avoid using terms such as “seniors,” “elderly,” “the aged,” “aging dependents,” and similar “othering” terms because they connote a stereotype and suggest that members of the group are not part of society but rather a group apart
person with deafness person who is deaf	Deaf person – Most Deaf or Deaf-Blind individuals culturally prefer to be called Deaf or DeafBlind (capitalized) rather than “hearing-impaired,” “people with hearing loss,” and so forth.
hearing-impaired person person who is hearing impaired person with hearing loss	hard-of-hearing person person who is hard-of-hearing
wheelchair-bound person	wheelchair user person in a wheelchair	Avoid language that uses pictorial metaphors, negativistic terms that imply restriction, and slurs that insult or disparage a particular group. As with other diverse groups, insiders in disability culture may use these terms with one another; it is not appropriate for an outsider (nondisabled person) to use these terms.
special needs physically challenged mentally challenged mentally retarded handi-capable	person with a disability person who has a disability disabled person people with intellectual disabilities child with a congenital disability child with a birth impairment physically disabled person person with a physical disability	Use person-first or identity-first language as is appropriate for the community or person being discussed. The language used should be selected with the understanding that disabled people’s expressed preferences regarding identification supersede matters of style. Avoid terms that are condescending or patronizing.

Transcript

Hi everybody, and welcome to this week’s edition of the nonfiction author’s podcast. I’m your host, Carla King, and our guest Catarina Rivera is here to talk about how authors and editors can learn about ableist language and how to avoid it in our writing and speech, and in fact, to start to think about accessibility as a way to expand our audience.

Catarina Rivera is an educator, a public speaker, and a Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion consultant with over 14 years of experience in the public sector. Catarina works with companies to improve accessibility and inclusion, retain employees, and design better products. She is the founder of Blindish Latina, a platform that smashes disability stigmas through storytelling and advocacy.

Catarina has worn hearing aids from a young age and was diagnosed with a progressive vision disability at 17 years old. She has a BA from Duke University, an MSEd from Bank Street College of Education, and an MPH from Hunter College. Catarina is a Certified Professional in Accessibility Core Competencies.

Welcome, Catarina, to the Nonfiction Authors Podcast.

Catarina Rivera 2:32

Thank you, Carla, for having me. I’ve really been looking forward to today’s conversation.

Carla King 2:36

Me too. We have so much to discuss in 30 minutes. But I really would like to start with–since authors are experts, voices, thought leaders–especially nonfiction authors–in tech, business, psychology, spirituality–any profession–most of us really aren’t at all aware of DEI or ableist language in the first place. Could you begin by starting with some definitions and examples of DEI, and the concept of person first versus identity first?

Catarina Rivera 3:21

Okay. So first of all, when we talk about DEI, we’re talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion. And those all mean different things. Diversity is really about who’s in the room, and having a range of different identities. When we talk about equity, we’re talking about, ‘Okay, is the environment–or the culture–set up for everyone to have an equitable opportunity?’ And that means that some people might get more support than others, because that’s what we need to actually bring everyone to the same level. And then when we talk about inclusion–that is all about actually taking action to include people. And so we kind of need to look at all of these things. And it’s important, as well, to note that there are other frameworks–like DEIA, where the ‘A’ is included for accessibility. There’s one where a ‘J’ is included for justice. So there’s different expansions of that foundational understanding. So that’s just my very quick definition for DEI.

And when we look at what you were saying about person first and identity first language, now we’re speaking about disability. And disability has progressed and has a long history of advocacy–a long history of fighting to be seen in our society as people. We’ll talk about that a lot today. But in terms of this specific question about person-first, identity-first language, this is all about how we identify as disabled people. Person-first language will say, ‘A person with a disability.’ And so the word person is first. In identity-first language, we use the phrase, ‘disabled person.’ And the identity is first in that phrase. Both of these are respectful ways to refer to someone who is disabled.

There’s just a nuance in the context and history behind these terms. Person-first language emerged in advocacy that has been going on for decades. There was a dehumanization of disabled people in our society, where disabled people used to be institutionalized. Parents were told that it would be better for their child to be in an institution, and that there wasn’t much hope for them and their future. So when we think about that history–and of course, these institutions were awful places to be–you can see, while society looked very different in the past–in the United States, especially, compared to now–when it comes to disability, there have been big shifts that have happened because of the advocates.

So in the 60’s and 70’s, we see that person-first language was so important to emphasize personhood–to emphasize the humaneness of us as disabled people. That we were people, too, and we deserve to have the same opportunities and access to education, access to jobs and employment, and inclusion in society. That we should not be hidden away, mistreated, and just left out in a structural and systemic way. So that’s why person-first language was very important at the time. Nowadays, a lot of people–especially advocates in my generation, and after–we’re loving identity-first language. We love to say we’re disabled, and it gives a lot of power, I think, in how we feel to claim our identities, and be proud of it. Be proud of what it means to be a whole human and be disabled. So for us, it’s very affirming.

Now, there are many other euphemisms and other terms for disability that I advise against. So as writers, I encourage you to stick to a person-first–person with a disability–or identity-first–disabled person–and use the word disability. But there’s nothing bad or wrong about having a disability. When you see people that say, ‘Oh, we need to come up with another term for it.’ That’s because of this inherent, underlying assumption that disability is negative, or disability is bad, and we need to avoid invoking that. And that rests on the foundation of ableism. Ableism believes that non-disabled people are more worthy or valuable than disabled people. And it leads to discrimination, prejudice, bias in our society. It’s very real, it’s very active as another harmful -ism, just like all the others. So when we speak about disabled language or writing, a lot of times at the root of everything is ableism. And what do we really believe about disabled people–about our worth and our value?

Carla King 8:28

Thank you for that. So, for example–your moniker is Blindish Latina. Can you give us examples of respectful or right and wrong ways to refer to a deafblind individual like you in speech and in writing, so that we have something to compare?

Catarina Rivera 8:57

First of all, in terms of referring to someone–if you do not know how they identify, then you are making a decision based on your best judgment. So in referring to me, I prefer what you just said–deafblind. And that is great. I also sometimes say I’m deaf and blind, or blind and deaf. And sometimes I just say that because I want to really make it clear for others that I hold these two identities, and I feel like people are less familiar with the term ‘deafblind,’ but that’s exactly what I am.

And one thing that’s challenging with deafness and blindness is that non-disabled people often feel like the word ‘deaf’ and the word ‘blind’ are a totality–that someone who’s deaf or blind is totally deaf, or totally blind. That’s not the actual human experience of deafness and blindness. Blindness is a spectrum, deafness is a spectrum. I am wearing hearing aids right now. Without them, I don’t have zero hearing. I have some hearing. And that doesn’t invalidate my deafness. But it’s important to note. With blindness as well, I have a very small visual field–it’s just my central vision. A very small amount–maybe 5% of what someone with a full visual field would have. And for me, I don’t really identify with a term that sounds very clinical, like ‘visually impaired.’ I don’t use any label that has the word ‘impairment’ or ‘impaired’ in it. And I would advise you, as writers, to avoid using that word ‘impaired,’ because that also connects to this idea that we are missing something, but I don’t feel that I am missing things.

My life has been enriched by my disability. I love the concept of deaf gain, for example, which focuses on–what do you gain by being deaf? What do you now have that other people don’t have? That the hearing people don’t have? That it’s not all about losing things, or missing something, or being less than. And that’s kind of the narrative that non-disabled people often place upon us. And that’s not how we actually feel. And of course, disability is not a monolith, and people have their own individual journeys with their identities. Some people are not feeling very positive about it. But there is a journey for each person that’s highly personal to them. So if you have the opportunity to ask someone how they identify, I always recommend that. If you’re just approaching writing about this, or you’re writing about the general population, then get yourself educated on the terms and the controversies, so that when you do use the term, you can fully back up why you selected that specific term. I think that’s very important.

Carla King 12:09

Yes, I do too. And I think this is a call–as editors, especially–to be that second check on whether the author has been consistent and inclusive in their writing. Especially for nonfiction authors who are writing in a profession, right? In an industry way. I know you do a lot of education inside companies to make sure that the companies are inclusive–are using the right language. And does that also extend to the writing, and memo writing, and the documentation inside the company?

Catarina Rivera 12:53

Naturally, writing is a part of what I speak about, because it’s how people will communicate. It’s just part of how companies are operating. So that’s important. Language is just one piece of the conversation, and I do find that some people are very critical about the focus on inclusive language. And I always try to clarify that language reflects beliefs, it reflects attitudes. So I’m not just speaking about language in isolation. In context, it’s talking about–what do we believe in? How can our language reflect what we believe? And how can we ensure that we don’t unintentionally cause harm with our language? Because when I’m reading a book, and I encounter an ableist phrase like, ‘Paralyzed by fear,’ or, ‘Tone deaf,’ I’m taken out of the text completely. It’s a microaggression for me–it disrupts my day, makes me feel a negative feeling. So I don’t want people to encounter that in their daily lives.

And so writers have a huge responsibility, in all contexts, to be mindful of the impact of their words, and strive to learn as much as they can, too, so that they can show up in the best way when they’re expressing themselves. So of course, within companies, I’m trying to give them the best practices so that they can be inclusive, and their employees can really thrive. And not have those moments where they’re taken out of their daily life or they’re upset about something that they’ve seen within their company.

Carla King 14:39

That so resonates with me. Okay, ‘Paralyzed by fear,’ ‘Tone deaf.’ Would ‘Blind faith’ be another one? What are some other common ones that we come across?

Catarina Rivera 14:49

So many. Just even the casual use of the word ‘crazy’ over and over again. ‘Oh, that’s so crazy,’ Or, ‘That’s insane.’ And OCD. ‘I’m so OCD, I cleaned my desk again.’ We see it in newspaper articles–or I see often–’wheelchair bound.’ Someone is wheelchair bound. And the term really should be ‘wheelchair user.’ I also see, ‘despite their disability’ or, ‘they’re overcoming their disability.’ So a lot of overcoming, fighting our disability–that’s this kind of constructive narrative.

‘Suffering.’ ‘Suffering from Usher Syndrome.’ But why not just say ‘has’? ‘I have Usher Syndrome.’ I’m not suffering from it. So there’s a lot of different examples. And there’s, of course, more phrases. Even the use of ‘blind spot.’ I don’t like it. Some people say, ‘Oh, that doesn’t really bother me.’ But for me, I don’t like anything where disability is equated to lack of awareness, or it’s used as a shortcut when a writer could be more descriptive, or use other words to communicate their message. A lot of times, there’s just a default to use this disability related term to mean something negative where there’s a lack of awareness or lack of understanding?

Carla King 16:15

A lot of this is very new to many, many people, and to me. For instance, you just said ‘blind spot,’ and I thought, ‘Okay, first of all, I think about driving and there’s a blind spot in my car. Right? Is that okay?

Catarina Rivera 16:34

That’s factual, right? That’s something that people can’t see. But I see blind spots, a lot, used as a descriptor for something that someone’s not aware of. ‘Oh, we have a blind spot when it comes to working with this population. Or, ‘I’ve got a blind spot I got to work on.’ And then it’s this narrative of blindness, meaning something that you’re lacking or you’re not aware of, or you’re having a weakness. But the first step is to ask yourself, ‘What do I actually mean? What am I actually trying to say here? And how can I say it more directly?’

Carla King 17:22

I get it. And I get it, too, because I was starting my career as a professional writer in the 80s, when there was a lot of gendered language. And I fought–as a technical writer in Silicon Valley–against the use of ‘he’ and ‘him’ as the default, because it wasn’t inclusive, right? And I do remember thinking when I was reading a manual, or anything–it was using ‘he.’ And it just brings me completely out of the learning.

So I think that’s something that nonfiction authors do, and editors need to be aware of. Even as soon as I got my first AARP invitation, I started becoming aware of the difference between the elderly and older adults. So the elderly is something that isn’t quite right in some lists. Older populations–I’m looking at a list here, and it says avoid using terms such as, ‘seniors,’ ‘elderly,’ ‘the aged,’ in fact, and use ‘people who are 65 and over.’ Being that specific. Are you in agreement with a lot of these lists that we’re seeing all over the internet?

Catarina Rivera 18:46

Anything that I see, I want to vet it first and just check it out. So what I like is that the conversation is happening more and more. And I appreciate when there are resources out there. Because I think oftentimes, disabled people are asked to do extra labor and educate others. And I do this for a living, so I’m happy to. But for the person in the workplace, or the person in an environment that is often asked to do something that’s outside of their scope–to say, ‘Oh, what’s the right thing that we should be doing here to educate?’ I love that resources are out there. And there’s oftentimes an answer for your questions already if you do a little research.

Carla King 19:30

Use Google, or ChatGPT now–or something like that. Do you have any resources that you trust for this kind of thing?

Catarina Rivera 19:40

This kind of thing–I think what I like to recommend is really going beyond language and learning more about disability. So I have a Disability Reading List that I linked to on Bookshop, where anyone can see what’s on my bookshelf, what books can they read about disability. Because I think it’s so important to hear from disabled people, and understand our lives, understand our stories.

Some of the things that I would recommend, if someone’s looking for a resource–is to definitely watch the documentary Crip Camp. Crip Camp is on Netflix. It’s also available for free on YouTube. Another great video that you can watch that’s much shorter than a documentary is a TEDtalk from Stella Young called, ‘I’m not your inspiration, thank you very much.’ And that really addresses the inspiration narrative that is defaulted to a lot when it comes to talking about disability.

Now, of course, for this audience, it would be great to recommend some books as well. So I will recommend the anthology–I don’t know if anthology is the right word. It’s a book with multiple essays. And it’s called ‘Disability Visibility.’ And that’s edited by Alice Wong. So when you pick up that book, you are going to get the benefit of hearing from many, many different voices, and different perspectives, different disabilities, different stories. And that one is very, very powerful.

Carla King 21:15

Before we sign off–we just have a few more minutes–you have a lot of resources on your website. One of them is an ebook that contains 12 best practices and resources. That’s for companies, mostly. Is that correct?

Catarina Rivera 21:33

It’s actually for anybody. It’s talking about how you can be more accessible. So for example, if you maintain social media, I have resources for you in that book, because I’m talking about best practices for making your post accessible. So for example, if you put up a video on Instagram, and you’re talking in the video, but you don’t caption it, and you don’t include any description of the video, that will not be accessible to a majority of people. Most people watch videos with the sound off. So we’re talking about general population loving captions.

Then you have deaf people, like me. Hard of hearing people, you have people that are English language learners that benefit from captions. Autistics, people with auditory processing disorder, and so many other people that can benefit from captions. And the actual caption on Instagram–I always include a video description. And I quickly share what is going on, and what is something that the viewer will be seeing. So if someone is deafblind, they know that they can get everything in my caption, because I also include a transcript. So they don’t have to hear or see the video.

And it’s very hard for people, I think, to access content oftentimes. The platforms don’t necessarily educate everyone. So all I’m saying is when you do become more accessible, you actually reach more people. You expand your audience. So that ebook–anyone can utilize it for whatever they are focusing on. Whether they have a podcast, or website, social media, or they are internal in a company.

Carla King 23:21

I would imagine that would be good for SEO as well, right?

Catarina Rivera 23:26

Yes, it is. It is. For example, if you have a podcast–like here–and you put transcripts alongside episodes, the web crawlers–like Google and other search engines–can actually understand your content more easily. And you will rank higher from turning your videos into those text transcripts. So it does help your SEO to be more accessible.

Carla King 23:51

And I was having a conversation with someone the other day about the alt text on images on your website and your blog posts. Can you describe those differently as well?

Catarina Rivera 24:01

Alt text is a very short description of a photo. So it’s meant to be succinct, I agree, and communicate the most important information. Because if someone is blind and is trying to access your webpage, all the images–if they don’t have alt text–it’ll just say ‘image,’ or something. There won’t be full information. The difference between alt text and image description is that alt text is read by screen readers. So screen reader users are the only ones that are going to see the alt texts. But I love to do both and have a little description as well. Because sometimes there are images that are confusing, and our brains don’t all work the same way.

People can use support in terms of understanding what’s important about an image. Or maybe if something’s hard to read, I go look for an image description. Sometimes people design graphics with colors that don’t really work together, and they’re hard to read. So there are different best practices out there. And it might seem intimidating at first, but once you learn about them and you start trying out one of them, you will get better at it.

Carla King 25:19

So just for example–if there’s a picture on your blog posts about–you’re in Portugal, you just led a tour. Instead of just saying, ‘Catarina in Portugal,’ it would say maybe, ‘Catarina Rivera leading a tour through a specific place for such and such group in Portugal,’ which is rather long. Would that be appropriate?

Catarina Rivera 25:45

Yes, definitely. That’s not even that long for alt text. And say that there’s a picture of me.I just posted a picture of me in front of a mural in Mexico City. So I will say something like, ‘Picture of Catarina, light skinned Latino woman with dark brown, wavy hair, standing in front of a mural with bright red flowers, and she’s holding her white blindness cane, she’s smiling widely, and there’s a lot of joy in the photo. Sharing a little bit about the feelings is really nice, too. Because that lets people know those intangibles from your photo.

Carla King 26:22

Oh, that’s nice. So somebody who’s just reading it with an app–or listening to it with an app–would hear it or see it read out that way.

Catarina Rivera 26:34

Exactly. The screen reader–if they’re using that–would read out exactly what the alt text is. And they would hear all of what you’re sharing.

Carla King 26:42

For authors and editors, I just think it’s so, so important, because we are such role models. And we do spread the word passively and silently by example when we reach a lot of readers. So I just want to thank you for your efforts and being accessible to us and educating us as well.

Catarina Rivera 27:04

Thank you, Carla. I appreciate you having me on, and for highlighting this issue and this topic within your podcast. Because authors have so much power in our society, and I really hope that we can see more awareness of ableism, of ableist language, and how to change that. And in doing that, we can hopefully change the way society views disability.

But disability shouldn’t be just viewed as inspiration or this terrible tragedy. Oftentimes those are the narratives that we see out there–the dominant narratives. My disability narrative is on the joy, the pride of who I am, and it’s something that is meaningful and adds to my life. It’s just part of who I am. So I love having these conversations, and I hope that we have created some learning today.

Carla King 27:58

Yes, absolutely. And we can find you, of course, on catarinarivera.com. And I believe you’re very active on LinkedIn, and Instagram. Where can we find out what you’re doing next? And how can we follow you?

Catarina Rivera 28:13

I’m very active on LinkedIn. That’s just my name–Catarina Rivera. And then on Instagram, you can find me at @blindishlatina. And I’m very active on there as well. So that’s how you can kind of keep up with me day to day. But I also encourage you to join my newsletter to get additional resources. And I just send a message every week. It’s not that long.

Carla King 28:37

It’s not that long. And I’ve been getting it ever since I was made aware of you, and it’s very entertaining and inspiring too. I love your independent location, independent lifestyle. Wow. You do a lot. You have a lot going on.

Catarina Rivera 28:54

I love that. I love that you’re enjoying them. I try to make them interesting.

Carla King 28:58

They are. Thank you so, so very, very much, Catarina.

Catarina Rivera 29:04

Thank you.

Carla King 29:05

And thank you to our listeners for joining us today and every week. For a list of guests and topics just check our schedule on the site, use your favorite search engine, or better yet, sign up for our mailing list at NonfictionAuthorsAssociation.com.

Quotes from our guest

‘There’s nothing bad or wrong about having a disability. When you see people that say, ‘Oh, we need to come up with another term for it.’ That’s because of this inherent, underlying assumption that disability is negative, or disability is bad, and we need to avoid invoking that. And that rests on the foundation of ableism. So ableism believes that non-disabled people are more worthy or valuable than disabled people. And it leads to discrimination, prejudice, bias in our society. It’s very real, it’s very active as another harmful -ism, just like all the others. So when we speak about disabled language or writing, a lot of times at the root of everything is ableism. And what do we really believe about disabled people–about our worth and our value?’

‘And of course, disability is not a monolith, and people have their own individual journeys with their identities. Some people are not feeling very positive about it. But there is a journey for each person that’s highly personal to them. So if you have the opportunity to ask someone how they identify, I always recommend that.’

‘I like that the conversation is happening more and more. And I appreciate when there are resources out there. Because I think oftentimes, disabled people are asked to do extra labor and educate others. And I do this for a living, so I’m happy to. But for the person in the workplace, or the person in an environment that is often asked to do something that’s outside of their scope–to say, ‘Oh, what’s the right thing that we should be doing here to educate?’ I love that resources are out there.’