Podcast Interview: Cherie Kephart 08/10/2022 - After the Memoir: Keep the Momentum Going with Helpful Nonfiction Books

Carla King interviews Cherie Kephart: After the Memoir: Keep the Momentum Going with Helpful Nonfiction Books.

Nonfiction Authors Podcast | August 10, 2022, 10:00 am PT / 1:00 pm ET

“I just feel that nonfiction, particularly, shouldn’t stop at a memoir. I mean, if you have something that big to say… you probably have other things to contribute to the world from your journey.” — Cherie Kephart

Cherie Kephart is an award-winning author, editor, writing coach, and workshop facilitator passionate about inspiring people on their writing journeys. After serving as a Peace Corps volunteer in Zambia, Cherie brought home an African souvenir she didn’t expect: a mysterious illness that almost killed her. This inspired her to write her award-winning memoir, A Few Minor Adjustments, that Publisher’s Weekly called, “A story of gut-wrenching perseverance and determination.” Her other publications include The Healing 100 and Poetry of Peace, as well as essays, short stories, and poems in various literary journals and anthologies. A graduate of the University of Auckland, New Zealand, with an MA in Medical and Cultural Anthropology, she also holds a BA in Communications from UCSD and was honored to be their commencement speaker for the graduating class of 2019. Outside her writing life, Cherie enjoys dancing on the beach near her home in San Diego, laughing for no reason, and practicing meditation with her cat, Jade.

Nonfiction Authors Podcast: Cherie Kephart

Find the video podcast, show notes, links, quotes, and podcast transcript below.

Live on August 10, 2022 10:00 am PT

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Show Notes

Links

In this episode

How to deeply focus on your purpose of writing your book to capture audience attention
How to get out of your head and into your heart while writing
Exploring the why behind writing your book
Questions to ask yourself while writing your memoir
How to incorporate fiction elements into your nonfiction writing

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the interview series for the Nonfiction Authors Association. Today’s session is with Cherie Kephart and we will be talking about what happens after the memoir, keeping the momentum going with helpful nonfiction books. I’m Carla King, your host, and I’m happy to have you with us today. This interview will last only 30 minutes and you can find recordings on our Nonfiction Authors Association website and social media platforms including YouTube.

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And now I’d like to introduce our guest.

Cherie Kephart is an award-winning author, editor, writing coach, and workshop facilitator passionate about inspiring people on their writing journeys. After serving as a Peace Corps volunteer in Zambia, Cherie brought home an African souvenir she didn’t expect: a mysterious illness that almost killed her. This inspired her to write her award-winning memoir, A Few Minor Adjustments, that Publisher’s Weekly called, “A story of gut-wrenching perseverance and determination.” Her other publications include The Healing 100 and Poetry of Peace, as well as essays, short stories, and poems in various literary journals and anthologies. A graduate of the University of Auckland, New Zealand, with an MA in Medical and Cultural Anthropology, she also holds a BA in Communications from UCSD and was honored to be their commencement speaker for the graduating class of 2019. Outside her writing life, Cherie enjoys dancing on the beach near her home in San Diego, laughing for no reason, and practicing meditation with her cat, Jade.

Hi Cherie! Welcome to the podcast.

Cherie Kephart 2:57

Hi, Carla, thanks so much for having me here.

Carla King 3:01

It’s lovely to have you. I just want to mention to our audience that we’ve known each other for a while. We met in a self publishing group in San Diego long ago, and I got to witness a lot of this journey that you took with your memoir, and it was just so inspiring. And your progress was amazing—and just so thrilling to see you have so much success with it. Are you surprised about that? Or what surprised you about writing the memoir and what came after?

Cherie Kephart 3:32

Well, thank you so much. It’s been great to know you all these years and I’ve learned so much from you. What surprised me the most–everything. Pretty much everything that you would expect a memoir to be like writing, it wasn’t what I thought. But one of the things that surprised me the most was that I would burn my book. Let me explain. So, we go about writing our memoir, and we have all these things we want to share that we think are important. And a lot of what happened to me, and what I shared in my memoir, was really dark and depressing–even for me. And at the end of my big first draft, I sat down to read my memoir. And it was so depressing. It was so awful in regards to, like, it wasn’t inspiring. It was just one bad thing after another bad thing. I thought no one, including me, is going to want to read this book. So, I went to the beach, and had a little bonfire, and I printed it out and I burned it. And I thought, ‘let it go. I got what I needed from writing it. I don’t need to do anything else.’ So that was a big surprise. But obviously it got published.

Carla King 4:44

You wrote it all over again, right? You started from scratch and you know, I just have to interrupt and say that, you know I work with a lot of memoirs. And there is that stage where you just write out all the anger and all the rage and all the bad stuff. That’s not what you publish, right? That’s sort of journaling and healing. Is that what you experienced?

Cherie Kephart 5:05

Yeah, absolutely. So I felt free after going, ‘Wow, I don’t need to put this in the world, I needed to write that for me.’ So the surprise was, I think with memoirs especially, you write everything twice. Well, there’s a lot more drafts. But essentially, you do that first draft for yourself. It’s everything you need to pour out of you. And then, when you have a clear head and time passes, then you can get into ‘Okay, what will be valuable to share with the world?’ And that’s where the real work started. It was like, ‘Okay, now this is a book for everyone else. I wrote my book for me. Now, what does everybody else need to hear from my story?’ Not what I think they need to hear, what do they really need? And what will resonate with readers? So that’s where the biggest surprise was, is I’ve got to do this twice. And of course, there’s many drafts to get it published. But that was the biggest surprise for me.

Carla King 5:56

Yes, because you have to get to those universal truths. Which doesn’t mean that you skip the hard stuff, though. So how did you sort out the hard hurtful stuff from the hard hurtful stuff that was readable, and was the universal truth that others can benefit from?

Cherie Kephart 6:13

Well, one of the things that I employed that was a good technique, was I used a pseudonym to write. So I call myself Maya. Because when I was writing, some of that stuff was so hard for me to process again. I used her name, and then I got a little distance. So then I had a little bit of distance, and I’m like, ‘Okay, well, if this is a character in a book,’—and one of the things I like about memoir is we employ fiction techniques to tell a good story. So I was like, ‘Okay, well, how would this character be perceived? And what will people learn from this?’ So it was really taking my preferences and my thoughts about this out of it. And you know, what worked for the character? What worked for the reader?

Carla King 6:54

So you just referred to yourself as a character. How does that work?

Cherie Kephart 6:58

Yeah, so again, it’s that—I teach memoir writing now, and one of the things I always distinguish is—that first draft, that pouring out, versus now you are creating a character. Now that doesn’t mean you’re making things up. You’re not doing that. But you’re looking at yourself as a character, your character has a story arc. So writing is about transformation, right? And reading a book is all about the transformation of a character. So you are this character that’s transforming in your life. So you need to show that transformation. So to your earlier point, how did I know what to keep in, what to keep out? Well, it had to serve the story. So I asked people this: ‘Does what you’re writing serve your ego? Or is it serving the story?’

Carla King 7:47

So maybe we’ll have you back on for a memoir class or something. Really, what I’m super interested in here is, you didn’t stop with the memoir. And a lot of authors have a memoir, and they stop and they go, ‘Okay, that’s it. I’ve done it.’ But you followed up with a couple of other books. Can you tell us how you were inspired, or maybe even asked to write these books? And like, what happened later? And how that transformed your life and career?

Cherie Kephart 8:18

Yeah, well, that’s a great question. So, I’ve always been a writer, and I love writing and I love sharing. And, after the memoir, I had so many people asking me, ‘Well, what did you do to heal?’ Because I healed from an undiagnosed illness, and it took a lot of work. And so, I wanted to answer the questions that I had been asked. And so the follow up books are The Healing 100, which is the concrete things that I did to heal. And because I always say it’s not one thing, it’s about 100 things that helped me heal. And then the poetry is really about the internal journey. Kind of more of the inner terrain about what happened in my poetic way, and I’ve always been drawn to poetry. And now I’m working on another book, which is exciting, but all nonfiction because I just am so drawn to it.

Carla King 9:12

Well, I do remember when I was in Southern California, that people were asking you, because in a few minor adjustments you describe the story of how you picked up this disease in Africa, and now you came home and you healed. But you were still allergic to everything, and you went around going, ‘Okay, you know, what is somebody going to eat that’s allergic to everything,’ right? And so, so many people have allergies and you know, I guess food allergies. They were coming to you saying, ‘How are you so happy and vibrant and healthy. How can I heal?’ So was that a demand from your readers? Is that what inspired that next book?

Cherie Kephart 9:57

Yeah, absolutely. And if I can talk about what I’m writing now, is what I was going to mention. It’s called The Cookbook For People Who Can’t Eat Anything. And it’s basically fusing my passion for inspiring people, helping people, sharing what I’ve learned. As well as, I love humor, like even in my book A Few Minor Adjustments, as dark as it was, I injected a lot of humor in the published version. And, I want to share again, what I learned. And like you said, I realized through everything that I went through, that it’s not just the physical that needs to heal, my perspective needed to heal. And so everything we write is about looking at all facets of our life. So when we write memoir, it’s about mental, emotional, physical, spiritual journey. And so the cookbook now is about the eating part, which I stopped loving food, like you said, I hated it. And now I’m like, I have an opportunity to turn what I’ve learned to help other people, and with my joy of writing. So there’s humor in the cookbook, there’s affirmations with each recipe, and I’m partnering with a local chef who is helping with his recipes. And so we’ve just had a great time doing this. So I just feel that nonfiction, particularly, shouldn’t stop at a memoir. I mean, if you have something that big to say to write a memoir, you probably have other things to contribute to the world, too, from your journey. So, whether it’s an essay, or a poem, or this cookbook. So I just want to keep going, as long as I have something passionate, and something worthy of sharing.

Carla King 11:31

Well you do have a lot worth sharing. And I do know that people have been asking for your advice, because of your story. Can you describe The Healing 100? What does that do? What does that teach people?

Cherie Kephart 11:46

Well, the main thing, I think, is that everybody looks to healing for usually one thing. They think, ‘If I just get this one thing, it will get better.’ Or they look for one answer. Well, in my case, I didn’t have any answers. I didn’t really know what was wrong with me. So I had to look collectively at my life, and look at—everything affects our health. So The Healing 100 says—These are 100 things I tried and did and changed in my life to help me heal. It’s not just one answer. Now, sometimes, of course, there is one answer. You get a splinter, you take it out-you know. Or appendicitis, you know. But, in most of our situations, we have so many other facets to what’s causing disease in the body. So The Healing 100 just gives people the opportunity to look at different ways of looking at their health, and things they can do to heal.

Carla King 12:38

And that’s a whole different writing project. That’s almost a technical book in a way, right? A how-to book. So, I mean, how did you feel about that? You just came off this huge, big creative writing process. And it’s a beautiful book, and written just very, I’ve, you know, of course, read it, and it’s gorgeous. And then now you go to this sort of, you know, prescriptive nonfiction writing. Does that feel good to you? How are you managing that transition? Do you feel like you want to write creatively anymore? Are you filling that with essays and articles? What’re you doing?

Cherie Kephart 13:15

Oh, I like it all. I mean, I feel like the main component that drives me is, Is there a passion there? What is my intention behind writing something? So I always ask people, ‘Why are you writing it?’ And, you know, writing a book takes a lot of energy, and time and effort, right? So, if I have a worthwhile intention and passion, then it’ll sustain me. So, for instance, I love the creative process. I mean, definitely. But also writing a nonfiction book, such as The Healing 100, can be a creative endeavor. So I try to bring creativity to everything. So I like a balance, I like to do both. And I also do want to write some fiction, which I have been doing. But I think that they fuse. So like, the nonfiction is so amazing. But again, like I said, bringing some fiction elements and joy into what we write nonfiction wise can be such a pleasure for the readers.

Carla King 14:14

Thank you. And, so all of this, it occurs to me, is a part of a pretty big and growing platform for you. Did you deliberately go about marketing and platform building? Or did it just happen easily?

Cherie Kephart 14:29

I think it’s a little bit of both. It happened a lot more organically than I thought. And I think it comes from me having the willingness to put myself out there. So I think you know this; I mean, you’re really great at marketing and putting yourself out there, Carla, and I’ve always admired that. So I feel that it’s just being willing to say yes. So when I get asked to a speaking engagement, or to be somewhere I say yes. And no matter how small or strange it may seem at the time, they lead to something else. And so I think since my memoir came out, I’ve done about almost 100 speaking events. From speaking at writers conferences, to retreats, to book clubs, to wellness retreats, to book festivals. So I just think the power of yes, of being open and vulnerable and being willing to go for it. And then, because of that, I think it’s spiraled. But I have put in the effort. I mean, you have to work at it, too. You have to be prepared, you have to be willing, and you have to be wanting it, too. So it’s a little bit of both.

Carla King 15:36

And I know you work with memoirists and other writers, too. I mean, how do you get them to reach—I don’t know, maybe you want to share an exercise with us or something—you know, reach deeply and create that plan and that intention of what you want to put out in the world. And does it backfire sometimes? Do people say, ‘Oh, wow, I just want to start over. I don’t want to do that.’ How do you get to the root—I guess I’m asking for our audience, you know, how do you really get to the root of what to keep and what to discard?

Cherie Kephart 16:15

Yeah, that is a great question. I mean, how long is your program?

Carla King 16:21

We only have about 10 more minutes. I’m not asking too much.

Cherie Kephart 16:26

So I would just say, for simplicity sake, one of the questions—here’s a couple questions I ask. So when I start working with an author, and talking with them about their book and their process, I ask a few questions to get to know them and why they’re doing what they’re doing. So one of the things I say is, ‘What do you want the readers to feel at the end of reading your book? How do you want them to feel?’ and so that’s going to tell a person a lot about what their process is, what their intention is for writing. And that’s going to determine how they write, because if you have that feeling in mind–like I wanted people to be inspired, that no matter how lost and alone they felt, and afraid–that someone else got through this, and you can, too. And so having that snippet to keep you going and to keep you on track is really important. Another thing I ask people, and this is a harder one. And I had a client, particularly, who I asked this, and it really jarred her. And I said, ‘If everyone was going to read your book, how would that feel? Would you still write your book?’ And she said, ‘Yes, absolutely.’ So I said, ‘Okay, if nobody ever read your book, would you still write it?’ And that, to me, is a huge—if you really are honest with yourself, why you’re writing your book–Is it for–just to make money, or fame, or revenge–exploring the why. But if you still want to write it, even though nobody might read your book–which could happen, we just don’t know, right? We don’t know how many people will or will not read your book, we can’t control that. But knowing that it’s still important for you to do this. That’s the fuel. So I go through a lot of questions, and then work through those questions and answers with them, and discover, really, what’s behind the writing. Does that make sense?

Carla King 18:19

It’s super helpful. Thank you. Those are great questions. And you know, on that topic of getting your book out there and having a lot of people read it or not, what were your publishing choices? I know we connected around self publishing. Tell us about—did you self publish? And how you published all three of your books.

Cherie Kephart 18:43

Yeah, so I believe that all paths are great, depending on what you need. And I had some offers for some traditional publishing, as well as hybrid and independent publishing opportunities. And I had to weigh what felt right to me at the time. And memoir, because it was so personal, and my memoir didn’t really fit in any category. It wasn’t like a travel memoir, really, all the way, but it was somewhat. It wasn’t really all self help, but I mean, it could have gone in so many different ways. So it didn’t really fit anywhere. So I decided that independent publishing for that would be my best way of getting out what I knew; kept the integrity of what I was trying to do. Because being undiagnosed, it didn’t have a focus, some publishers thought, and they wanted to change it. But I didn’t want to change what I was trying to do. So I think that it’s important for people to look at, you know, what is important to you? Because each process has value, right? Each publishing track has value, and each one has drawbacks. So the other two, again, was the same. But now with my cookbook, I’m definitely looking at traditional publishing. And I have a couple interests there. So that’s the path that’s going, but for a lot of other reasons. So I think each book is a different process.

Carla King 18:44

Yes, it’s a different journey. And I can see how your book, because it doesn’t really fit in a niche, I guess it does fill on sort of a general healing niche. But you’re right. It’s about travel, it’s about healing, it’s about medical stuff. And the ability to just experiment and change your categories and keywords, and you know, how you’re marketing it with metadata and all of that, that must have been quite the learning curve.

Cherie Kephart 20:12

Yes, very much.

Carla King 20:17

What did you end up with? I’m gonna ask you—what did you end up with your categories? What did you find? Where did you find the most engagement? With what genre? Or what category, virtual bookshelf, sort of, keyword item?

Cherie Kephart 21:04

Right, well, I mean, it definitely was memoir. I mean, people, I think certain people are drawn to reading memoir. But what surprised me the most is—I thought healing and inspiration—like healing would be the category that would be the most well received and most engaging for the audience. But it wasn’t. And I found the readers that liked my memoir the most tend to be people who are not sick at all, or don’t have a devastating illness. I thought that was my audience. I’m like, reaching to all my people. But it was everybody else who was ‘Whoa, I didn’t know this was happening, that this could happen to someone and all you went through,’ and it inspired them. And so that was really interesting to me. So it’s not what I thought.

Carla King 21:49

Yeah, and that was surprising, because when I did read your book, because I’m a world traveler, and have been in Africa for a long time, it was horrific. I was like, ‘Wow, but there but for the grace of God,’ you know, I really escaped. And it was—I don’t know, what do I want to say—it’s a travel book. I think everybody who likes traveling would be interested in it. And it’s one of those horror stories, kind of with a happy ending?

Cherie Kephart 22:22

Yeah, of course.

Carla King 22:24

Yeah, okay. So just in our few minutes left, let’s talk about what your books are about. If you could just sum them up and tell us what else you’re doing. I know, you’re offering writer services and all kinds of wonderful things. Where can we find you? And what are your books specifically?

Cherie Kephart 22:46

Yes, so one of the things I think is most interesting, whether we’re writing nonfiction or fiction, I think we always gravitate towards writing the same themes. And so what I realize is, my theme is always about that the power lies within us to get through anything. And if you believe in yourself, whether it’s to get through an illness, or to travel around the world on a motorcycle, or to do anything—you know, write a book. If you believe in yourself, it can happen. So I always go back to belief. And I think hope is beautiful, but it’s kind of lofty. Belief is that concrete knowing. So I think that’s what all my books are about—is just believing in yourself and knowing that there’s power within you to do anything.

Carla King 23:30

I love that. I just have to say. Hope versus belief—because there is a power in belief over hope. It’s not this sort of tentative thing, right? Thank you for that.

Cherie Kephart 23:44

And now I forgot the rest of the question.

Carla King 23:48

I wanted to talk about your books and what you’re doing next. Give us the rundown.

Cherie Kephart 23:54

So obviously, the memoir is still out there. And I’m always, you know, doing engagements with that. And I’m speaking at wellness retreats, and writers conferences. Teaching mindfulness and the craft, which I love being more self-aware as a writer. Because writers, we’re all in our heads so much. But if we really tap into our heart and our intuition, that’s where the best stuff is that we write. Einstein said it—he attributed all his discoveries to three things—imagination, intuition and inspiration. He says, not from the head. So I encourage, writers and I’m always doing this, to get out of our heads, get back into our heart and our passion and trust your intuition. Trust your knowing. And I teach classes on that, too. And I love—my biggest joy right now is working with other writers. Is being a developmental editor and writing coach. Because what I get to do now is contribute to other people’s passion of getting their voice and their story into the world. And there’s nothing more beautiful than seeing a book that I’ve worked on that when I first read it It was like, ‘They’re paying me to help them.’ And then by the end of working with them, I would pay to read the book. That’s my biggest joy.

Carla King 25:10

I love that, yes. And I want to mention that you can find Cherie at CherieKephart.com. And find her books A Few Minor Adjustments, The Healing 100, Poetry of Peace, and what is the title of the cookbook?

Cherie Kephart 25:28

The Cookbook For People Who Can’t Eat Anything.

Carla King 25:32

Well, thanks. You’ve offered us a lot of inspiration today, sharing and practical advice. So thank you so much for being our guest.

Cherie Kephart 25:43

Thank you so much. It was wonderful to be here.

And thank you to our listeners for joining us today and every week. For a list of guests and topics just check our schedule on the site, use your favorite search engine, or better yet, sign up for our mailing list at NonfictionAuthorsAssociation.com.

Quotes from our guest…

“But essentially, when writing memoirs, you do that first draft for yourself. It’s everything you need to pour out of you. And then, when you have a clear head and time passes, then you can get into ‘Okay, what will be valuable to share with the world?’”

“Everything we write looks at all facets of our life. So when we write memoir, it’s about the mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual journey.”

“Bringing some fiction elements, and joy, into what we write as nonfiction can be such a pleasure for readers.”