Matt McWilliams: Turning your passion into profits with your author business

Nonfiction Authors Association Podcast | December 21, 2022

“You can get attention with a great cover to your book. You can get attention with one good podcast episode that is controversial. You can get attention with just one good subject line. But how do you stand out every single time?”
-Matt McWilliams

Find out how this entrepreneur launched his book with high-profile testimonials, rave reviews, an affiliate program, and other marketing techniques you can model for your own launch. This is also a book recommendation for McWilliams’ new release, Turn Your Passions into Profits: The Proven Path for Building a Rewarding Online Business.

The interview is on Apple PodcastsGoogle PodcastsSpotifyAmazon Music, and all the usual podcast channels and will also be streamed on YoutubeFacebookLinkedIn, and Twitter. Can’t make it live? Catch the recording below!

Matt McWilliams Passion to Profit

About Matt McWilliams

Matt McWilliams is living proof that one can pursue one’s passion in life, and do so while making a profit as well. He started his first online business in 2001 at the age of 22 and today is one of the leading online business teachers. In the 19 years between his first venture and living out his passion and purpose, he’s worked with more than 300,000 online business owners while running affiliate programs and consulting on product launches and book launches for entrepreneurs such as Shark Tank’s Kevin Harrington, Jeff Walker, Michael Hyatt, Brian Tracy, Lewis Howes, Jeff Goins, Ray Edwards, Claire Diaz-Ortiz, Rich Schefren, Tony Robbins, Dean Graziosi, and more. Today, he coaches other small business owners, solopreneurs, and wantrepreneurs on how to start the right online business, scale it, and eventually go full-time with it. His experience and expertise is encapsulated in his book, Turn Your Passions into Profits: The Proven Path for Building a Rewarding Online Business.

Join us here on December 21, 2022 at 10AM PT / 1PM ET

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Show Notes

Links

In this episode…

  •  Time management tips for author entrepreneurs.
  • Five attention triggers to make you stand out when marketing your author brand.
  • How to become a thought leader with your craft.
  • The art of marketing your book through your website, and tips on how to continuously make it better for your audience.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the interview series for the Nonfiction Authors Association. Today’s session is with Matt McWilliams, and we will be talking about turning your passion into profits with your author business. I’m Carla King, your host, and I’m happy to have you with us today. This interview will last only 30 minutes and you can find the replay on our Nonfiction Authors Association website and social media platforms including YouTube, and wherever you listen to podcasts.

And now I’d like to introduce our guest.

Matt McWilliams is living proof that one can pursue one’s passion in life, and do so while making a profit as well. He started his first online business in 2001 at the age of 22 and today is one of the leading online business teachers. In the 19 years between his first venture and living out his passion and purpose, he’s worked with more than 300,000 online business owners while running affiliate programs and consulting on product launches and book launches for entrepreneurs such as Shark Tank’s Kevin Harrington, Jeff Walker, Michael Hyatt, Brian Tracy, Lewis Howes, Jeff Goins, Ray Edwards, Claire Diaz-Ortiz, Rich Schefren, Tony Robbins, Dean Graziosi, and more. Today, he coaches other small business owners, solopreneurs, and wantrepreneurs on how to start the right online business, scale it, and eventually go full-time with it. His experience and expertise is encapsulated in his book, Turn Your Passions into Profits: The Proven Path for Building a Rewarding Online Business.

Carla King 1:06

Hi, everybody, and welcome. I’m so happy to have Matt McWilliams with us today. I have been on Matt’s mailing list forever. He always offers excellent value. And unlike other lists, I’ve never been tempted to unsubscribe, Matt. So maybe we’ll talk about that a little.

Matt McWilliams  1:24

Wow.

Carla King  1:26

Yeah, I know. As we discuss your specialty–turning passion into profits with your author business. So welcome.

Matt McWilliams  1:36

That’s kind of one of the coolest endorsements ever, Carla. You’ve on my list for a long time and didn’t unsubscribe. That’s cool. Thank you.

Carla King  1:44

But first, you’re a new author. So I want to congratulate you on the launch of Turn Your Passions Into Profits: The Proven Path For Building A Rewarding Online Business–yay.

Matt McWilliams  1:55

Thanks. It’s been a really exciting process. I mean, we’ve helped so many others launch their books. Launched a ton of best sellers. I’ve been on that side of things. And I told people, ‘I know what I know.’ And I know as well as anybody, if not better. But I don’t know what I don’t know, you know. And so this whole journey, as I know many of your listeners–anybody who’s published a book–knows, there’s so much you don’t know going into it. And I keep learning new things every day. Like, ‘Oh my gosh, we’ve got to do Amazon ads.’ And, ‘Oh, we got to do this.’ And ‘Oh, shoot, I totally forgot–we have all these people committed to bulk orders. And we didn’t have a mechanism in place.’ I was so naive–I thought they were gonna go to Amazon and order them one at a time 300 times. No, you actually have to work through a company–and I’m not endorsing any particular company. We all know who they are. We’ve got to go work through that company, so I’m emailing my publisher frantically like, ‘Hey, I’ve got this guy who wants to buy three hundred books–how does he do it?’ And so it’s been so funny–this whole process. All the stuff that just happened on the other side, just happened. And as far as I knew, I didn’t care. Now I care. So I’m turning into the worst nightmare for our team, because I’m like the client who’s freaking out about everything. And I’m all over the place, and I’m micromanaging when I never do. And I mean, they’re super chill about it. But it’s actually kind of funny.

Carla King  3:21

I can imagine, yes. There is a lot that you don’t know until you go through the process yourself. And getting the printer for bulk sales, and doing the POD thing, and having a publisher or selling direct–it’s all a mystery until you go through the process. And I know both kinds of authors–nonfiction authors who are creating a business with their books, and the business people like you, who are writing books to convey what you know and boost your authority–they’re gonna get a lot of value from this. And first is time management. I mean, you’ve done this for other people, and now you’re doing it for yourself. Author entrepreneurs–we run out of time. How do you prioritize time and still create those newsletters and those posts that people never unsubscribe from?

Matt McWilliams  4:13

Well, full disclosure– I was diagnosed at a very early age with ADD. I had childhood epilepsy. My neuropsychologist said many years ago, ‘Matt, your synapses fire seven times faster than the average human being.’ And so what that means is–I have seven times more input. Like, whoever’s listening to this, I have seven times more input happening at any moment. Yes, it’s scary to be in my head. And so focus  and productivity are very challenging for me. Now that’s not an excuse. And so, to give you some perspective–writing the book. I’ve been talking about this for eight years. Eight years! Why did I not write it sooner? I was in that 88% of the people who say they want to write a book and never do. 88% say they want to write a book, and less than 1% do. Well,  I was there. And I kept being there. And I kept being there, I kept being there. And I’m not diminishing the negative impacts of the pandemic. But we will all admit that all of us who made it through–most of us experienced some positive. I went hiking more than I’ve ever went in my life. That was amazing. Why? Because I couldn’t go to stores. I couldn’t go to the movies. So we went hiking. I mean, I had no interest in hiking. Now I love hiking. I think hiking’s amazing. I would have never discovered that.

But one of the things that I did–toward the end of it, we had a little bit of a slow period as I started writing the book. I finally had the time. I had a few weeks. And I started writing. Well, here’s the thing–I only got about a third of the way through, and then I hit the busiest season I’ve ever had professionally in my life. Our company was blowing up in a good way, we were scaling rapidly, we had four new hires in a couple of months period, we had a big product launch with one of our clients–well in excess of $7 million. And I was still heavily involved in that side of the business. And I went to our Operations Manager, Robby Miles, who’s also a productivity guru. And I said, ‘Okay, Robbie, here’s the deal. I’ve got a lot of momentum with this book. But I’m only a third of the way through. How do I do that? I can’t pause it for four months and come back. I know what will happen. I’ll sit there with a 1/3 completed manuscript for the next eight years. And I’m never going to get this book out, and it’s going to eat me, and it’s probably going to kill me. I’m gonna be dead at 50 just because I never got this book out.’ And you think, ‘Well, that’s a little bit extreme there.’ No, I think I think it could, because it was eating me up inside.

And he said, ‘Well, can you write for 20 minutes a day?’ I said, ‘Yeah, man. I can find 20 minutes.’ We’re not talking about getting up three hours earlier. Yeah, get up at five in the morning, sure. If that’s your thing, get up at five in the morning. It’s not for me–I’m a 7:15 person. But can I get up at 6:55? And he was like, ‘Well, how long would that take?’ I was like, ‘Well, in an hour and a half, I’m writing close to 2000 words.’ So I did the math.  I’m like, ‘I can finish this thing in three and a half months at 20 minutes a day.’ So here’s what I did. Carla, I set my timer for 17 minutes. At the end of those 17 minutes, it went off. That meant I had three minutes to do the following: tie up any loose ends and type my notes for the next day. And I found that was key. When I came down the next day to write for 17 minutes, I already had my outline for the next day. I didn’t start with a blank page. People talk about writer’s block–writer’s block only exists if you have a completely blank page. It does not exist if you’ve made the notes, you wrote the outline, and your subconscious is magically working on it for the next 24 hours. I can promise you, I never started with a blank page. So I finished up. If I finished up in 30 seconds, then in 17.5 minutes I was done, and I got to work on my other stuff. And so it wasn’t an issue of trying to find the time, I just made the time. Before I did anything else, I came downstairs every morning. The first thing I saw was the Google Doc–nothing else was open. And that was it. And I started writing for 17 whole minutes and finished the book.

Carla King  8:07

Awesome. I love that advice. I love that. I think Hemingway did that, or something.

Matt McWilliams  8:11

I don’t know. I’m sure I’m not the first person.

Carla King  8:15

That is great. That not being faced with a blank page is amazing. And I guess you have been able to put out small chunks of content–like blog posts and short podcast episodes and things like that. And those are easier for you. For some people, it’s easier to write a whole book than it is to do social media, right?

Matt McWilliams 8:41

It’s like the old saying, when the guy put, ‘P.S. if I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter.’ Some famous guy wrote that.

Carla King  8:49

I know who that was. I’m pretty interested in your attention triggers. You talk about five attention triggers–assert authority and become known in your field. Can you go over those five things?

Matt McWilliams 9:09

This is something we’ve been teaching for  10 years. And they’re as true today as they’ve ever been. So number one–ultimately, just to back up, right? To backup we’ve got to stand out in the marketplace first. Once we’ve stood out, then the question becomes, ‘How do we continually get attention?’ Not just, ‘How do we get attention one time?’ You can get attention with a great cover to your book. You can get attention with one good podcast episode that is controversial. You can get attention with just one good subject line. But how do you stand out every single time? The first one is a pattern to disrupt. So I’ll give a good example–most of my emails come out at about the same time every day on the same days. I very rarely send emails on Sundays. So when I suddenly send an email at 7:30pm on a Sunday, it disrupts a pattern. It stands out. My audience goes, ‘Huh. That’s weird. Matt’s sending me an email on Sunday night, it must be important.’ And the truth is, it may or may not be that important. But I’m just disrupting the pattern. Now, usually, I do save those for something that is important. So any kind of a pattern disrupt. Are your normal emails really short? Then maybe you have one that’s really long. Do they normally not have an image in them? You include an image. Something like that, that just disrupts the pattern. I’m focusing on email, but this can apply to anything, right?

The second thing is reward–rewarding people. When I do webinars, for example, I like to say thank you to the people who were early, and I reward them with just a little bit of bonus content at the very beginning. So only 5-15% of the people, but it catches their attention. When we look at the buyers at the end, 15% of the people showed up more than one minute before 50% to 60% of the buyers did. And I don’t know if that’s because they were so eager going into it that they showed up early. It’s not a causation, but there’s a correlation. And I don’t have a way of split testing that. But my hypothesis is–it’s a combination of that, plus the fact that, before I even said, ‘Hey guys. Welcome,’ they already gotten something out of it.

The third thing is prestige. There’s a study I talked about in the book from Robert Cialdini, where he talks about this ad that ran back in the 90s. And it ran for 10 years. So any ad that runs for 10 years, you know is amazing. Because the run life of most ads is measured in weeks. The bad ones only last a couple of weeks, and they go away. This ad ran for like 10 years, and it was an actor wearing a doctor’s coat. And he says at the beginning, ‘I’m not a doctor, I just play one on TV.’ And yet the trust factor–that prestige–the ad worked for almost a decade, because they still associated what he was talking about–some sort of medical thing–with the fact that he was wearing a doctor’s coat. I talked about my clients. I talked about the fact that we’ve run big launches from Michael Hyatt and Tony Robbins and Dean Graziosi, Jeff Walker. We’ve worked with all these people. Lewis Howes, Brian Tracy–the list goes on and on. Prestige. That’s why I say that.

The fourth one is uncertainty. If you’ve ever seen the famous, ‘To be continued…,’ at the end of an episode, you know how uncertainty is a trigger for attention. Because what happens? Especially back in the day, when it happened live on Thursdays at 7:30, right? What did you do at 8:01 when that episode was over? You called your friend, who also was watching the same show. And you said, ‘Oh my goodness, I cannot believe that they did that. Is she really going to end up doing that? Are they going to do this?’ That uncertainty–that open loop–was an attention grabber. And it kept us engaged for months, until the next episode came out–if it was that long.

And then lastly is recognition. A good example of that is just calling people out by name. I recognize listeners on the podcast. On the webinars, I call people out by name. I can see a list of their names, and I’ll just mention them. Dale Carnegie said, ‘There’s nothing sweeter than the sound of your own name.’ And so find ways to recognize people, because it stands out and it catches that attention.

So those are those triggers. If you can use even one of those in your ad copy, in your emails, in your podcast–it only takes one. If you try to use all five, it gets kind of weird. But if you can use one, sometimes two, possibly three, then you’re gonna stand out.

Carla King  13:43

I love it. Okay, so number three was prestige. And when you were talking about that, I was thinking of authority. So a lot of authors are really thought leaders–or they could be. But they’re hesitant to assert their authority and their thought leadership. How can you guide authors to assert themselves and become that thought leader?

Matt McWilliams  14:09

When I say things like, ‘We’ve worked with Brian Tracy, and Michael Hyatt, and Tony,’ it feels weird. And I’ll be honest, it never gets better. I am never going to just say those things and not kind of be like, ‘Holy crap.’  I am never gonna say those things and not think, ‘Somebody’s listening to me right now going, ‘What a pretentious jerk. Oh, look at him. He just thinks so much of himself.” I’m gonna be honest–I am never gonna feel that way. 20 years from now, I’m still going to feel like I shouldn’t be saying those names.

Carla King  14:41

So you’re just powering through it? Just scripting it and going, ‘Okay, do it Matt. Do it.’

Matt McWilliams  14:46

Internally, yeah. I’m proud of what we’ve accomplished. I’m proud of what I’ve been able to do. I did an interview yesterday and he was like, ‘What lessons have you learned from those people?’ And I said, ‘For me, one of the biggest lessons I learned–the weirdest thing–was sitting there with Kevin Harrington from Shark Tank, right?’ He was a client of ours for a while. And I got to sit at his table while he analyzed the scripts that we had written for him to do some of the marketing. This is the guy that invented the infomercial. So if you know, ‘Hey, Billy Mays here,’ the George Foreman grill, the Tony Little Gazelle trainer–this guy has sold billions and billions and billions of dollars worth of products on TV. So he knows a script when he sees one. He knows how to analyze every single word. Sitting there with him was amazing. It was absolutely mind blowing. And I learned so much. So for me to be able to talk about the fact that we’ve worked with these people, and we’ve coached their teams, and we’ve run their launches, and we’ve helped them sell 25,000 books, or 100,000 books. I pinch myself. But I’m never gonna be comfortable with it, Carla. I’m never gonna not feel awkward. I’m never gonna not feel self-conscious. But yeah, I power through it. And I do it because I know that I have to establish that with people. And my mission is more important than my feelings. So even though it feels uncomfortable, I know that when I say those things, it opens people’s minds to say, ‘Okay, maybe this guy knows what he’s talking about. Maybe we should listen a little bit.’

Carla King  16:27

I see. So your mission is important to you, and I think a lot of authors–most authors– have a mission. They’ve got that book they just have to write–they have to get that message out, whether it’s an internal message or a profitable message about how to grow your business. But you got that first client, you’ve got that first book review. How do you approach a first authority figure, and start that train of working with people who are higher level?

Matt McWilliams  16:59

You know, I think it’d be easy for me to say, ‘Here’s how I did it. And this will work for everyone.’ I don’t know if this is going to work for everyone. I can tell you that I’ve done it and taught it to a lot of people, and it’s worked for almost everybody that we’ve taught it to–if you actually do it right. So if you look at the very first big client I got for a book launch, for example–a guy named Jeff Goins. His previous book sold about 3000 copies. He had a new book coming out called The Art of Work. I’m gonna fast forward. 

I  just finished listening to a book called Great by Choice by Jim Collins. And he talks about the role that luck plays in business success. And he compared companies that did really well and companies that did not do well, and that were similar sizes 20 years before. And they found that luck–all of them experienced luck. Good luck, bad luck, all kinds of luck in equal proportions. It’s how you react to luck. So here’s the thing. I just happened to see one day that Jeff had tweeted out and said, ‘I’m looking for stories of people who found their career–the job they love. And I’d like to interview you for my book.’ Well, as you know about Twitter, there’s about 100 tweets per minute in my feed, probably. So the odds of me seeing any individual tweets are roughly 2%. Let’s go high and say 5%. So there’s a 95% chance I would never have seen that tweet. Was it lucky that I saw the tweet? A little bit. But I could have seen it and went, ‘Eh, cool tweet,’ and moved on. But I took action. So I reached out to Jeff and I said, ‘I’d love to be interviewed for your book.’ And he interviewed me. And from that interview, he knew that I ran affiliate programs for some big companies that I was working with at the time. But I wasn’t working in the entrepreneurial space–the space that I really wanted to work in. I was doing more corporate stuff, working with Adidas and Shutterfly. And I didn’t even mention to him that I wanted to get into working more with people like him and Michael Hyatt. My wife had asked me, ‘Who are your dream clients?,’ and I listed five people. And I told her, ‘I’m never going to work with any of those people. That’s not my thing.’ Years later, I’ve worked with four of them. There’s only one missing. And I actually, believe it or not, have a connection to him now, because I just found out that his grandfather’s last name was McWilliams, and that the guy who runs his marketing is one of my dear friends. So we’ll see if that turns into anything. He’s been a dream client. I never knew any of those things.

But then Jeff reached out to me and said, ‘Hey, I’m launching this book. Can you help me?’ And I said, ‘Absolutely. Sign me up.’ And we signed him up, and we worked with him. And I’ll never forget–he came to me and said, ‘Matt, I gotta tell the publisher how many books I’m going to sell. Last book sold 3000. What should I tell them?’ And I said ‘15,000.’ And Jeff said,  ‘I can’t tell them 15,000. Did you hear me? My last book sold 3000 books. I can tell them 10, maybe?’ And I said, ‘Jeff, you either tell him 15,000 or I’m not working with you.’ He’s like, ‘Well, fine. I’ll tell them 15,000.’ We did 22,000 preorders. But it started with–here’s the thing–being available. And then secondly, that email that he sent to me saying, ‘Could we talk about running my book launch?’ This is the thing–we both promoted Michael Hyatt before Michael was a client. We both promoted Michael. Jeff finished one spot ahead of me on the affiliate leaderboard. I sent an email to him and said, ‘Great job, congratulations, it was awesome competing with you blah, blah, blah.’ I really didn’t know him that much other than he’d interviewed me for his book. It was that email that he responded to. So that give–that compliment, that interaction on Twitter, and the comments on his blog, and all the things I’ve done for three years before, were ultimately what led to him working with me. When we worked with him, and had success with his book, that opened up the floodgates. Because he told 50 people, and they all wanted to work with us. And then the rest is history.

Carla King  20:43

And there are several things about this that I would like to model for nonfiction authors. Because you’ve got a landing page. I don’t know if you have an affiliate thing on here, but you have some bonuses and all that. Can you model this for our authors?

Matt McWilliams 21:02

You guys can check it out. Actually, I would just encourage people to. We’ve got a special URL for your listeners, Carla.

Carla King  21:10

Oh, you do? Oh, thank you.

Matt McWilliams 21:13

Let me find that here.

Carla King  21:18

So you’ve got three things that I’d like to talk about–the URL, the affiliate link for us, your deadline and your giveaways, right?

Matt McWilliams  21:29

It’ll be, let’s see–passionsintoprofitsbook.com/carla–there’s some extra bonuses there. I want to talk about the funnel specifically, so I want to pull open the page, because I’d love to say that I was the mastermind behind this page, but I wasn’t. If you look at the page–depending upon when you look at it–right now, when you go to the page, we’re running a couple of split tests right now. So you might see a slightly different version. So the version I’m looking at, the book is on the right. There’s another version where the book is on the left. And you think, ‘Whoopdeedoo. What difference does it make?’ Well, there’s some different text, and we’re split testing headlines, and doing all that stuff, because conversions matter.

And I tell people all the time, Carla–I’m a good marketer, I’m not a good marketer because I’m smart, or I know more than you, or I’ve read more books, or have more experience. I’m a good marketer, because I test everything. And the cool thing is, we’ll run the split test for a week. At the end of the week, the thing that works better, we get to keep for the next year. The thing that didn’t work, it only lasted a week. So I get to be wrong 50% of the time, and still make a ton of money. So just that’s the thing–split test everything. Change one word in the headline, and you never know if that can make a 1 or 2% difference. And then change the button color. Change the cover facing this way or that way. Just change everything you can think of. do something where you’re doing kind of a silly face, or one where you’re doing an aggressive face, and one where you’re doing more of just a normal, standing still type face. Doesn’t matter.

Carla King  23:09

And I just want to cut in here just for a second. And I know a lot of authors, they aren’t web savvy. But a lot of website building tools allow you to do the AV or split tests. And you can also easily hire an assistant or somebody to do this for you.

Matt McWilliams  23:23

I know all the website savvy stuff, and we didn’t have to know any of that for this. It’s all drag and drop these days. You guys have no idea what it was, like 20 years ago to build a website. It was so hard. I had a book that was 600 pages long, that had all this stuff in it. Now, ‘Oh, how do you center the text on this thing?’ You just Google it, and it tells you how to do it. Super easy. So up at the top, you’ve got the book, and you’ve got some buttons, you talk about the pre-order bonuses because there are $785 in exclusive pre order bonuses. Then we’ve got the endorsements. We;ve got Kevin Harrington from Shark Tank, Dorie Clark, Michael Hyatt, Susie Moore, John Lee Dumas. Jon Acuff, and so on. And then there’s an area to get the book. You can buy the book at any major retailer. And if they sell books, they sell the book. And we have links to there, but then you come back to that page to claim the preorder bonuses, because it’s like, ‘Well, how does the affiliate who sent traffic to this page make any money?’ So what happens is–you fill out the bonus form there. And then, when it takes you to the next page, which is an offer that enhances the book itself.

So for instance, when you come to the page, the incentive for them to go to this page is the preorder bonuses. The incentive for them to get it now–the scarcity–is the preorder bonuses. We’ve got a bonus on there that takes part of the book a little bit deeper. Another part where I talked about how, ‘Hey, I would have loved to have included this in the book, but we had to cut the manuscript from 117,000 down to 80,000 words, so this is a part that got cut. I’m gonna give it to you as a bonus, but you have to buy here.’ If you just go to Amazon and look up the book on Amazon, you don’t get these bonuses. So when you claim these bonuses, there’s a few things that end up happening for the customer. We’ll offer you some additional things that you could purchase. That’s number one. From our standpoint, now we’re collecting the email addresses. So, on launch day–when we launch the book–the next day, we can send an email. And we even know what retailer they purchase through. We know the big ones. It’s Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, Books-A-Million, or other. 99% of orders are going to be through those first four. 80% are going to be through Amazon.

So we can specifically say, ‘Hey, thank you for buying the book through Amazon. Would you be willing to tell others about the book? Here’s the direct link to do that.’ So we’re now able to boost reviews, we’re able to boost engagement, we’re able to even do things–especially right now, when we’re doing this, it’s the Christmas season. ‘Hey, you purchased the book? Do you maybe know a couple other people who would like it? And we’re running a campaign that if you preorder five books, we’ll send you a signed copy right away. We will put it in the mail today. You’ll have it in three days, you can be reading a physical copy long before anybody else will.’ All of those things we can do, because we’re actually capturing the email addresses. And there’s one last thing that I’ll point out that we did that’s been a big deal on the page. We were reading the book Influence by Robert Cialdini as a team. And I’ve read that book five or six times. I mean, it’s a foundation of marketing, right? 

But one of the things that one of our team members said, that he caught, that I just didn’t catch when I read it this time, is–just the usage of–basically you need testimonials from average people. Not just, ‘Oh yeah, Kevin Harrington, the guy who’s worth a billion dollars, says this. Dan Miller, Rachel Miller. Jonathan Milligan, they all say nice things.’ These are guys renting seven figure businesses–they say nice things about the book. And I was like, ‘Oh my gosh, we have so many people that have been through the same process that the book teaches, and we have none of their testimonials on the page. Oops.’ I’ve been around for 20 years, and I still make a mistake every now and again. And we were like, ‘Get those added right away.’ And we were adding those. And so that’s just a little tip for everybody. Make sure you put ‘Average people’s’ testimonials, not just the best selling author of such and such endorsing your book on your page.

Carla King  27:38

It’s a great model. Thank you for that. And I cannot believe we’re out of time. I’d love to talk to you some more after the book launch. So why don’t we just end by where we can find you online–your podcasts, your programs, your courses, your affiliate program and the URLs.

Matt McWilliams  27:54

If you guys listen–and obviously you’re into podcasting–check out The Affiliate Guy Podcast. I would look up the ones that I’ve done specifically about book marketing. I’ve done a couple that would help you with promoting your book, but also some on how to work affiliate offers into your book, because we all know you don’t make very much from your book itself. So how do you increase that value per book an extra $2,3,4 dollars? Which, if you’re selling enough, could be a pretty substantial amount of money. So I’ve got some episodes totally free that will walk you through that. And then the next place is that URL I mentioned earlier–passionsintoprofitsbook.com/carla. I’ve got tons of special stuff there for your listeners, Carla. So you can buy it anywhere. If you just want to skip all that and don’t want that, that’s fine. But I think you’ll be glad you went to that URL.

Carla King  28:41

Yes. And the offer ends January 10, I believe? Yeah,

Matt McWilliams 28:46

Yeah, there will still be some special stuff for your listeners. There’s a couple of the preorder bonuses that are time bound. Like, we’re doing a Q&A with everybody–obviously, I can’t do one of those every single week in perpetuity, right. So that’ll be only for the people who preorder by January 10–they’ll get a special event with me. But yeah, there’ll still be a bunch of bonuses up that you can’t get anywhere else for your listeners, Carla.

Carla King  29:09

Thank you, Matt. And I know it’s the holidays, it’s your launch time, it’s the end of the year. It’s a lot. So I really appreciate you taking the time to be our guest.

Matt McWilliams 29:18

Absolutely. My pleasure. Thanks, Carla.

Carla King 29:20

And thank you to our listeners for joining us today and every week. For a list of guests and topics just check our schedule on the site, use your favorite search engine, or better yet, sign up for our mailing list at NonfictionAuthorsAssociation.com.

Quotes from our guest

“You can get attention with a great cover to your book. You can get attention with one good podcast episode that is controversial. You can get attention with just one good subject line. But how do you stand out every single time?”

“So that give–that compliment, that interaction on Twitter, and the comments on his blog, and all the things I’ve done for three years before, were ultimately what led to [Jeff Goins] working with me. When we worked with him, and had success with his book, that opened up the floodgates. Because he told 50 people, and they all wanted to work with us. And then the rest is history.”

“Split test everything. Change one word in the headline, and you never know if that can make a 1 or 2% difference. And then change the button color. Change the cover facing this way or that way. Just change everything you can think of.”

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