Podcast Interview: Octavia Goredema 03/01/2023 - How a business book launched bigger with Pinterest and a team

Carla King interviews Octavia Goredema on how her business book launched bigger with Pinterest and a team.

Nonfiction Authors Association Podcast | March 1, 2023

“I have to emphasize, I do not have a large social media following. I do not. I do not have thousands of followers. I don’t. I have a small community that I’m really proud to share with. But what I’ve come to realize is that so many opportunities have arisen for me, even with a small, engaged community. And of course, a lot of metrics look at size–and I’m not saying size doesn’t matter. But I let go of that, and just made peace with that. I just wanted to share in a way that was authentic to me. And if I did that, and tried to do it in a way that felt right for me, then that was a win.”
-Octavia Goredema

About Octavia Goredema

OCTAVIA GOREDEMA is a career coach and the founder of Twenty Ten Agency. Her mission is to help underrepresented professionals advance their careers. She is the author of PREP, PUSH, PIVOT: Essential Career Strategies for Underrepresented Women, published by Wiley in 2022. Her book was one of the recommended books of 2022 by Cosmopolitan, Refinery29 and Management Today. It’s been featured in an array of media outlets including CNN, CNBC, Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, Forbes, Business Insider, Inc., and was a cover feature for the Los Angeles Times magazine. She’s spoken at over 100 events and signed books at almost every Barnes & Noble and indie bookstore in Southern California. Octavia is based in Los Angeles where she has lived for over a decade. Originally from England, Octavia was appointed a Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE) by the Queen in recognition of her work. Octavia is a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, where she leads the Gender Equity network in the United States. Octavia is an Ambassador of the Pankhurst Centre, the iconic site of women’s activism, past and present.

Nonfiction Authors Podcast: Octavia Goredema

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Show Notes

Links

In this episode…

How generosity plays a role in success.
Tips on how to gain visibility when using social media platforms.
How to use Pinterest boards for inspiration and motivation.
How publicity firms can help authors.
How promoting your book can promote your personal business and work as well.
The importance of building a multi-faceted team to promote your book.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the interview series for the Nonfiction Authors Association. This week I’m speaking with Octavia Goredema about her very successful marketing strategy, how she leveraged Pinterest and other social media and conducted an extensive local book tour to produce massive success in book sales with her business book. I’m Carla King, your host, and I’m happy to have you with us today. This interview will last only 30 minutes and you can find the replay on our Nonfiction Authors Association website and social media platforms including YouTube, and wherever you listen to podcasts.

And now I’d like to introduce our guest.

Welcome, Octavia, to the podcast.

Octavia Goredema 2:40

Carla, thank you so much for the warm welcome. I’m really thrilled to be here.

Carla King 2:44

Well, I’m thrilled that you made time for us, because you have experienced massive success with your book, and I suppose with your business. And I just really appreciate you spending the time to help other nonfiction authors and business people with tips and inspiration to help them succeed.

Octavia Goredema 3:02

Oh, you are welcome. It’s really poignant for me to be here, because the Nonfiction Authors Association was my resource when I was planning how to become an author. So thank you so much for all that you do.

Carla King 3:13

Oh, you’re welcome. And I have to say that your generosity, I think, has a lot to do with your success. And I think it’s innate in you to be thankful. And when I look at the organizations that you’re a part of, and when I look at your social media, you’re always thanking people. And I know you probably don’t think of it as a marketing strategy, per se. It’s how you are. But I do see that people who are generous with their things are more successful somehow. How does that work?

Octavia Goredema 3:47

Oh, wow. That’s a really profound thing to hear. So thank you, Carla. And you’re right. I didn’t really think about it. But yes, I’m very appreciative and thankful. But I also very much believe in supporting others. We’re all on a journey. And yes, I’m a coach. So in my professional capacity, it is my job to be that person in your corner to help you navigate tough things. But for me, personally, oh my goodness. Yes, I’m a first time author. This was a lifetime goal, but I had no idea what I was doing. And there were so many people who were kind and generous with their perspectives and their insights. And so yes–if I can play a part in that also, I’m thrilled to do so.

Carla King 4:39

And you’re definitely a doer also. And doers get attention for their businesses, and their books, and to pass on their message. And we’ll dive into your social media success in a moment–which is one of the things I want to concentrate on in this conversation. But first, I want to ask–what did you do to start the ball rolling, to become involved in all the organizations you’re involved in today? And how do you make the time for that and your business and your book?

Octavia Goredema 5:05

Well, a lot of things just happened. I think maybe by serendipity, in terms of the organizations I’m part of. My work–I always get excited about enabling others, and helping others, and what it takes to navigate those next steps. And I became a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, which, for anyone listening, who perhaps hasn’t heard of it before, it’s a global think tank in its current form. It began almost 300 years ago in London. And it’s a hub for social innovators from a variety of backgrounds and disciplines to come together to share ideas about how we can make things better for society.

I lead the gender equity network for the RSA they started in the United States. I became a Fellow. I don’t know who nominated me. I received a letter out of nowhere–it must have been in 2011, because that’s when I actually joined the fellowship–telling me about the work that they did, and asking me if I would consider being a part of it. And yes, the Pankhurst Centre, it’s the birthplace of Emily Pankhurst in Manchester. And I’ve been really honored to be an ambassador for their work, too. I think it’s so so important.

Carla King 6:28

And this all relates to your 2010 agency work, right? Do you want to just tell us in a nutshell what that does?

Octavia Goredema 6:36

I’m often delivering large scale workshops at companies across the United States and beyond. I’ve done work in Africa and in Europe. And we also provide group coaching, and one on one coaching. I discovered coaching when I was building my career. I’ve been working for just over 20 years now. And it was so transformative for me.

So I get really inspired by organizations that are excited to make investments in their people to support their advancement. And so it’s such an honor to do that work. And my book, Prep Push Pivot, was born out of that. Because I recognize that not everyone works at a company that might be able to provide access to one-on-one coaching. You might maybe do a group session, or a workshop, and then that’s it. And not everyone has the budget to pay for one on one career coaching themselves.

Coaching can be very expensive. And so I wanted to create a resource for underrepresented women–especially as a black woman myself–to provide a guide for all of the steps that you take at different points in your career. Whether that’s figuring out what your best work is and how to do that. How to land a job if you keep getting rejected. How to bounce back if you’ve lost your job suddenly. How to plan for a career break if you are considering stepping away–whether that’s for further education, or maybe to start a family. And also if you have to return to work if you’ve taken time away. Also how to navigate building your career if you’re a caregiver–whether that’s for parents or loved ones, or dependents. It’s a challenge that so many women are experiencing of being in that sandwich generation, where you might have a young family of your own and you also have loved ones–parents, aunts, and uncles, and grandparents who also need support. I pulled my insights from my professional career, but also the work that I do as a coach into this book, and it was published by Wiley last year.

Carla King 8:43

Well, it’s a great example, because I think every professional, and a lot of nonfiction book authors, are pulling out of their brains all their expertise, and valuable tips, and inspiration, to give to an audience that can’t afford a $500 an hour consulting fee or a $3,000 workshop or something. And it’s also what you call the 6×9 business card, as well. So you can prove your expertise, you can pass your message on massively with book publishing, and also via social media. So I’d like to switch to social media here. You obviously–and most authors who are professionals–have a lot to share on social media. Yet we are often very intimidated by it. Can you tell us how you approach social media? What sites you use that are targeted? And did you use a tool like HootSuite or Buffer? Or did you have a team? Tell us how you figured that out and implemented it. Because you were very successful.

Octavia Goredema 9:56

Well, thank you for saying that, Carla. I do have to say–I’m incredibly shy. And it was maybe the deepest learning curve I’ve had to go through in terms of how to be visible using social media. And I was really reluctant to do so. So it was a journey. It really was a journey for me. My favorite social media platform is Pinterest. I say that because I’ve been using Pinterest forever to plan my own work and my goals. And when I had the idea for my book, Prep, Push, Pivot, it began with a secret Pinterest board.

I always knew I wanted to be an author. But when I had the idea for this distinct book, and made the commitment that I was going to just try and keep going. And see what happened if I just kept trying and didn’t give up. It started with a secret Pinterest board of motivation, first of all. And then also resources. I found things about how to write your book proposal, and I was looking at the resources that the Nonfiction Authors Association has, and pinning those things, too. And so it started from that place, and grew, and grew, and grew.

I have boards for every thing that I’m working on in my life. I look at Pinterest every evening. It’s my way of calibrating what I’m working on, and just reminding myself that I’m making progress. And I also track highlights from my year on Pinterest, too, so that I’ve got a visual cue reminder of the things that I’ve done, not just a written list. And this is all privately. This is me–just me, Octavia at home, planning and brainstorming, and thinking.

I was introduced to another new Fellow at the Royal Society of Arts, and we were just having a conversation on Zoom. And afterwards, she was like, ‘Oh, my goodness, I talked and talked and talked. You didn’t really say much at all.’ And I’m like, ‘That’s actually great. You know, as a coach, I love asking questions. And it was great to meet you.’ And I said, ‘If I had talked about anything, I would have just told you how obsessed I am with Pinterest.’ And the person I met with works in social media. And she went and told Pinterest about me. My book hadn’t come out then, but I was working towards it.

So they reached out to me and said, ‘Would you like to learn about some of our tools that we have?’ They were creating new video based tools called Idea Pins; learning how to use those. And so they coached me through how to do that. They then invited me to become part of their Creator Residency last year, which is like an intensive social media bootcamp, where you also create content specifically for that platform. And they amplify that content for you. And as part of that, I’ve hosted three Pinterest TV episodes so far. It’s their own curated Live TV platform within the platform.

I can’t even begin to emphasize the terror that I felt at the prospect of talking for 30 minutes live on the internet. But with their encouragement and support and guidance, I’ve made this full journey from being too shy to pose, to actually hosting and sharing. And I’m really proud to be a part of that community. In addition to Pinterest, LinkedIn has been an incredible platform.

Carla King 13:30

Let me stop you there. I’m totally with you about being an introvert and shy, because believe it or not, I’m the same. But we do learn to overcome these barriers. And it can be super fun. And I want to say that, in the show notes on the nonfictionauthorsassociation.com site for you, we’ll put all these links in. And you seem so natural in that. I was like, ‘Wow. She’s an actress! She’s really got it nailed.’ So you did a great job. I just wanted to know–I mean, can other authors replicate your success? Or was it just random that you got invited because you knew somebody? Or do you have any tips on how somebody else might replicate that experience and being invited to their community?

Octavia Goredema 14:24

In terms of being invited–it ended up being totally random. I literally, in having a conversation, was introduced. And that happens to us so much in life–a chance conversation results in an introduction that can be really impactful. But there was also some intentionality in terms of–more broadly, I realized that I had a gap and a weakness. That I was really shy, and that to be able to sell a book, I needed to be more visible. And so I leaned on people that knew how to do that better than me.

I hired some consultants to guide me on what I should be thinking about, and how to do the things that I’d never done before. Because I couldn’t just figure it out on my own. And Laura, the woman who guided me and helped me–I remember the very beginning of our conversation, maybe two years before my book came out, I was like, ‘How can I make videos when my face isn’t in them?’ And she’s like, ‘Octavia, that’s not going to work. You have to do this.’ She’s like, ‘Everything’s moving towards video, and you have so much to share. You have to learn how to do this.’ And her saying that to me, really–I don’t know if she even knows–that changed everything. Because I would have avoided doing those things. And if I’d kept on that path, when Pinterest said to me, ‘Hey, Octavia, would you like to do this with us?’ I might have been like, ‘I love your platform. But no, thank you,’ because I wasn’t ready to move out of my comfort zone for a very, very long time.

And also, I have to emphasize, I do not have a large social media following. I do not. I do not have thousands of followers. I don’t. I have a small community that I’m really proud to share with. But what I’ve come to realize is that so many opportunities have arisen for me, even with a small, engaged community. And of course, a lot of metrics look at size–and I’m not saying size doesn’t matter. But I let go of that, and just made peace with that. I just wanted to share in a way that was authentic to me. And if I did that, and tried to do it in a way that felt right for me, then that was a win.

Carla King 16:39

That’s such a lesson. Because we all are told, ‘There’s these workshops–get 10,000 Twitter followers in a week.’ And I’m thinking, ‘No, because what you want are the people who really resonate with you.’ And also, you probably have a lot of followers who are micro influencers, right, from all of these organizations who have a reach of 10,000 or more people, I think micro influencers are defined as 10k-100k followers. But even lower than that, it’s exponential. So even if somebody just has 5000, or 1000–if they’re the right people, it can make a huge difference.

Octavia Goredema 17:21

Yes. And I also learned–you can’t get your validation from who likes your content. Because I’ve learned so many people have appreciated things I’ve shared, that didn’t necessarily like the post, or comment on the post, but that it stuck with them. Because they’ve told me maybe a long time afterwards, ‘I read this, or I saw this.’ I’ve had an email–sometimes a year after I did something–out of the blue, ‘Octavia, you don’t know me but I heard you say this, or I saw this, and this is how I used it. And then this was the result.’ And it floors me. And it’s always very humbling. And it’s a reminder that everything that you do matters. And if you’re doing it from the perspective of wanting to share and contribute, you can’t lose.

Carla King 18:12

Wonderful. And you were about to say something about LinkedIn, Instagram, or Facebook?

Octavia Goredema 18:17

Yes. LinkedIn has been a really important platform for me as well. I mean, I’m a career coach, I work with corporations. I also love LinkedIn, because I get really inspired by what I see there and what people are doing. Pinterest energizes me in terms of–it’s where I can plan, and create, and grow myself. And I love that about Pinterest. And I love LinkedIn, because I just get inspired and motivated by what I see there. But I also share there as well. And Instagram, as you mentioned.

I’d say those are my core–Pinterest, LinkedIn, and then Instagram. You can also find me on some other platforms, but I don’t engage, or I’m not on those platforms as regularly. Because I do think that social media is exhausting. And there’s only so many hours in the day, and only so much that I can pour myself into. And so when I do things, I do them with intentionality. And so I put my focus on Pinterest, and then LinkedIn, and Instagram.

Carla King 19:25

Great. And you also did a book tour. And since the pandemic, that hasn’t been such a thing anymore. Even before–with self publishing and the failure of big publishing houses to deliver, really–it’s been difficult to reach bookstores. But you hired a publicity firm, you went on a local tour. Can you talk about that?

Octavia Goredema 19:49

Yeah, of course.

Carla King 19:51

Talking about being an introvert–you’re standing up in front of people all the time, right?

Octavia Goredema 19:56

Yes, I have spoken so many times now since I began this journey as an author. But at the beginning, I was looking at a blank Excel sheet like, ‘Okay, what am I going to do?’ And as you know, we were in the pandemic. And I just figured, ‘Well, you know what? I’ll just do what I can and see what grows.’ And momentum just starts to build.

I cannot thank enough the team at Smith Publicity, though. Their work just raised the bar for me. The media outlets that you referenced in my introduction–I wouldn’t be in any of those spaces if it wasn’t for Smith Publicity taking my work, reaching out, constantly proactively pitching me and putting me in spaces I could never have imagined.

I had four live TV interviews in the week of my book launch–back to back four, exactly on the same outlet–Black News Channel–every morning. Thanks to Smith Publicity–Cosmopolitan Bank. CNN, thanks to Smith publicity. The list goes on. My mind was blown. And that definitely helped, because as I was starting to get publicity, and sharing it on my social media platforms, that helped generate opportunities to do more and more and more and more speaking.

So I did a mix of public speaking–where you could attend and watch me–and then also speaking at corporations. And that was very helpful, especially with regards to bulk buys for books. And then I was very intentional. It took me a while to figure this out about bookstores. And at first I was really intimidated because I was like, ‘I’m a first time author. I don’t have a large profile. No one really knows who I am.’ But what I quickly realized is–I could just go to a bookstore, and turn up and sign copies of my book. And take photographs, and meet the manager, and do all of those things. So I’ve been very intentional about doing that.

And just before my book came out, I reached out to my local Barnes & Noble in Manhattan Beach. They were so amazing. And they arranged, on my launch day, for there to be a display of my books. And it was the first time I saw my book in a bookstore. And it’s also the store we go to every week, because my daughters are just voracious readers, and they love our local Barnes & Noble. That’s where we go every week. So for them to be with me, and for me to see my book there for the first time was just incredible.

Carla King 22:39

Wow. I’ll bet. And about a publicity firm–now, do they help you with media training? And do they recommend that you take excerpts from your book for articles for these magazines? How do they help you?

Octavia Goredema 22:55

Oh, gosh, they can do everything. Now, I did have a background in public relations before I became a career coach. So I knew the mechanics of it. But I do have to tell you, Carla, when you become the person that is at the center of what you’re trying to promote, it becomes sometimes very difficult. Because you’re just so personally invested, and then there might be things that you’re trying to learn and do that you might not have done yourself for the first time, even if you know the mechanics of it. So I really appreciated their counsel and their drive. And they drove the PR for my book. They really did.

And yes, I do remember doing some practice interviews, especially before I did the live TV. They were fantastic. They also got me on stage at events, like you said. I spoke on stage three times, I believe, at the Black Enterprise Women of Power Summit in Las Vegas. And one of those was me on stage reading from my book. All of these opportunities would not have happened for me without having their team being such advocates for me and my work. So yes, they distilled my book into media materials, they came up with talking points, they secured opportunities for me to write excerpts or extensions of the topics in my book. And yes, I just was dazzled. I completely was. It was more than I could ever have imagined.

Carla King 24:26

How did that fit into your work life?

Octavia Goredema 24:30

I was lucky in that–I have control of my schedule, because I’m the founder of my company. And so I made the decision that I was going to pour my time and energy into supporting my book. I actually didn’t know how long that would end up being. And if you’d told me now–13 months later–that I’d still be doing this almost the same intensity, I would have been quite surprised. But I’m also fortunate that my book supports the work that I do as a career coach. So we actually brought in more work for me. It brought in more workshops for me, it brought in more coaching for me. I wrote an article for Harvard Business Review, and it resulted in 200 copies of my book being sold to one organization, and then hiring me to come and work with their people. So the promotion supported my work. And so I was very fortunate in that regard.

Carla King 25:28

And can you tell us about your team? Besides the publicity, do you have an assistant who posts the social media? Do you have tools that you use, like Hootsuite?

Octavia Goredema 25:41

I had a social media consultant who would do all my posting for me to begin with, because I didn’t literally know how to do a lot of the things. But then I realized I also needed to learn. And so she showed me how to do them. And it was always–we would draft content together, or I would write the caption, and then she would package it and share it. But then gradually, I started to take on more of that. So I don’t actually post a lot. And now more often than not, it’s me that’s actually doing the posting.

But yes, I brought in people to help me with the things that I didn’t know how to do. When I was creating an author website, I hired Dan at Author.Pub to do that for me, and he updates it for me every time that it has to be done, because I just didn’t know what I was doing with regards to that. And so the publicity team–again, that’s getting help to do things that–I knew the process, but I didn’t have the time, and I didn’t have those connections. And also, I would have played a little smaller. And when you have other people, they encourage you to think bigger.So that was a game changer for me.

I had a book coach–Sharon Woodhouse. I hired her, not for the writing part of my book, but for the launch of my book, and to support me in those first four to five months after my book came out, when everything was new to me. And for me to figure out–I didn’t even know how to sign a book, or how you talk to a bookstore, or all of those things. And while I value the support of my publisher, they’re not with me in the moments when I’m having to figure out these things. And so Sharon was amazing. And really great counsel. And I had mentors too. I spoke to other authors who had done this, and got their perspective and advice. And they were sounding boards for me when I had questions. Sharon helped me mentally prepare. She helped me mentally prepare for what was to come, because I was so overwhelmed and terrified and didn’t really know what to do. And also, she was a sounding board for questions as they arose for me, because I then started to have all sorts of questions about launching a book. And it was just really great to have someone to talk to and talk through those things with.

Carla King 28:07

You’re very wise to bring this team together around you. And I kind of heard, as a subtext, that you got a return on the investment because you went bigger, rather than stayed small, right?

Octavia Goredema 28:22

Well, I also very quickly realized that–I birthed this book, but all the things that then came after that I couldn’t do all alone. Even if there were four of me, I just didn’t have the mental capacity to be able to do all of those things at once. And I just knew I needed some support, and that it would be worth the investment. And I’m so glad that I did.

Carla King 28:51

Thank you. And before we close, do you have any last words of wisdom for authors who seek to market their books and businesses on how to get more media attention?

Octavia Goredema 29:00

Oh, yes. If you have any questions based on what I’ve shared, send me a message. If you’re on LinkedIn, send me a message. If you’re on Instagram or Pinterest, reach out. Or go to my website, octaviagoredema.com. There’s a form there and I see every single message that comes through it, actually. I see every single one. So send a message.

And then, just bigger picture–it’s easy to think about all the things that you perhaps don’t have. Focus on what you do really, really well. It’s not possible to be everywhere, and to do all the things. And just make sure that you enjoy the process. And at first I was starting to get distracted, and worried, and scared. And then I thought, ‘What do I really want to experience from this?’ And one of those things was, of course, seeing my book for the first time. But there were other small really private things that mean the world to me, and I’m sure that’s the same for you–wherever you’re at in your journey. So really hang on to those things, and be proud of what you’re doing and what you’re sharing with others, because it’s just so priceless.

Carla King 30:01

Well thank you Octavia for your generosity and your positivity, and for making time for us.

Octavia Goredema 30:08

Thank you, Carla.

Carla King 30:09

And thank you to our listeners for joining us today and every week. For a list of guests and topics just check our schedule on the site, use your favorite search engine, or better yet, sign up for our mailing list at NonfictionAuthorsAssociation.com.

Quotes from our guest

‘…That happens to us so much in life–a chance conversation results in an introduction that can be really impactful. But there was also some intentionality in terms of–more broadly, I realized that I had a gap and a weakness. That I was really shy, and that to be able to sell a book, I needed to be more visible. And so I leaned on people that knew how to do that better than me.’

‘I have to emphasize, I do not have a large social media following. I do not. I do not have thousands of followers. I don’t. I have a small community that I’m really proud to share with. But what I’ve come to realize is that so many opportunities have arisen for me, even with a small, engaged community. And of course, a lot of metrics look at size–and I’m not saying size doesn’t matter. But I let go of that, and just made peace with that. I just wanted to share in a way that was authentic to me. And if I did that, and tried to do it in a way that felt right for me, then that was a win.’

‘And so the publicity team–again, that’s getting help to do things that–I knew the process, but I didn’t have the time, and I didn’t have those connections. And also, I would have played a little smaller. And when you have other people, they encourage you to think bigger.’

‘It’s easy to think about all the things that you perhaps don’t have. Focus on what you do really, really well. It’s not possible to be everywhere, and to do all the things. And just make sure that you enjoy the process. At first I was starting to get distracted, and worried, and scared. And then I thought, ‘What do I really want to experience from this?’ And one of those things was, of course, seeing my book for the first time. But there were other small, really private things that mean the world to me, and I’m sure that’s the same for you–wherever you’re at in your journey. So really hang on to those things and, and be proud of what you’re doing and what you’re sharing with others because it’s just so priceless.’