Podcast Interview: Joseph Perry and Jennifer Chen 11/30/2022 - Understanding Publishing Industry Contracts, Agreements, and Trademarks

Joseph Perry and Jennifer Chen Tran – Understanding Publishing Industry Contracts, Agreements, and Trademarks

Nonfiction Authors Association Podcast | November 30, 2022

“I think it’s just really important to advocate for yourself, and to really make sure you’re protected when signing with an agent, when signing with the publisher, when signing a collaboration agreement. And the best way to do that is to have either an agent or an attorney that’s on your side–[one] that understands how to best protect you.” -Jen Chen Tran

About Joseph Perry and Jennifer Chen Tran

Jennifer Chen Tran is an agent at Bradford Literary, joining in September 2017. She represents both fiction and nonfiction. Originally from New York, Jennifer is a lifelong reader and experienced member of the publishing industry. Prior to joining Bradford Literary, she was an Associate Agent at Fuse Literary and served as Counsel at The New Press. She obtained her Juris Doctor from Northeastern School of Law in Boston, MA, and a Bachelors of Arts in English Literature from Washington University in St. Louis.

Jennifer understands the importance of negotiation in securing rights on behalf of her authors. She counsels her clients on how to expand their platforms, improve on craft, and works collaboratively with her clients throughout the editorial and publication process. Her ultimate goal is to work in concert with authors to shape books that will have a positive social impact on the world—books that also inform and entertain.

Joseph Perry is a literary agent and publishing attorney at Perry Literary, Inc., and The Law Offices of Joseph J. Perry, P.C. As an agent he represents bestselling cookbook authors, athletes, musicians, journalists, influencers, academics, and more. As an attorney, Joseph counsels clients in the publishing industry, where among other things, he drafts, reviews, and negotiates various publishing agreements and conducts prepublication review of manuscripts.

Nonfiction Authors Podcast: Joseph Perry & Jen Chen Tran

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Show Notes

Links

In this episode…

The kinds of agreements that self-publishing authors need when publishing their own books.
The difference between a collaboration agreement and a release agreement.
What fair use is, and when you should get permission to use someone else’s work in your books.
The four factors that courts consider when contemplating fair use.
How titles work when it comes to copyrights and trademarks, and how you can avoid a title being used by others.
Key terms you should be looking for in a contract, or where you should plan to negotiate when discussing a book deal.
Understanding the contours of a publishing contract.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the interview series for the Nonfiction Authors Association. Today’s session is with Joseph Perry and Jen Chen Tran, and we will be talking about understanding publishing contracts, agreements, and trademarks . I’m Carla King, your host, and I’m happy to have you with us today. This interview will last only 30 minutes and you can find the replay on our Nonfiction Authors Association website and social media platforms including YouTube, and wherever you listen to podcasts.

This week enjoy a Top Replay from the archives.

Jennifer Chen Tran is an agent at Bradford Literary, joining in September 2017. She represents both fiction and nonfiction. Originally from New York, Jennifer is a lifelong reader and experienced member of the publishing industry. Prior to joining Bradford Literary, she was an Associate Agent at Fuse Literary and served as Counsel at The New Press. She obtained her Juris Doctor from Northeastern School of Law in Boston, MA, and a Bachelors of Arts in English Literature from Washington University in St. Louis.

Joseph Perry is a literary agent and publishing attorney at Perry Literary, Inc., and The Law Offices of Joseph J. Perry, P.C. As an agent he represents bestselling cookbook authors, athletes, musicians, journalists, influencers, academics, and more. As an attorney, Joseph counsels clients in the publishing industry, where among other things, he drafts, reviews, and negotiates various publishing agreements and conducts prepublication review of manuscripts.

Stephanie Chandler 1:05

Welcome, Jennifer and, Joe. Thanks for joining me today.

Joe Perry 3:08

Thanks so much for having us.

Jen Chen Tran 3:09

Thanks for having us. Really excited to be here.

Stephanie Chandler 3:12

You guys are a dynamic duo. And I want to cover quite a few topics in the short time we have together today. So I thought we’d start by focusing on our self published authors, since I think we have a larger proportion of them. But then we’ll also briefly discuss traditional publishing agreements toward the end. So first of all, what kinds of agreements do authors need when publishing their own books?

Jen Chen Tran 3:37

That’s a really good question, Stephanie. And a lot of people get confused, because self publishing is a very viable option for authors these days. And there are a lot of different agreements that you need to cover your bases, and to protect yourself as an author. Recently, we worked on a collaboration agreement–for instance–where there’s more than one author co-writing a book. And so if you have more than one author, it’s really, really important that you have a collaboration agreement in place, outlining the responsibilities and roles of each writer.

Another common agreement is a work-for-hire agreement. And that occurs more in a situation where the author is a so-called ‘hired gun,’ and they’re writing something on behalf of the publisher. They may or may not get credit for it, depending on how the contract is negotiated. But work-for-hire situations–the author pretty much doesn’t have ownership or copyright control. It’s more of an intellectual property licensing type situation. Another common agreement that a lot of people are not really familiar with–in terms of terminologies, or permission, or licensing agreement–that’s basically where you ask for permission to quote someone’s work, or use someone’s art in your book. So those are really, really important–I use the broad brush to paint these agreements. But those are the three main ones, I think–agreements that people should be familiar with if they’re self publishing. Joe, do you have anything to add?

Joe Perry 5:13

I guess it would just be something for the cover. For instance, if you hire an artist, it’s another type of release agreement. Or it could be sort of a collaboration agreement. It all depends on the context of your relationship. But that’s something to think about as well.

Stephanie Chandler 5:29

Joe, can you clarify the difference between a collaboration agreement and a release agreement?

Joe Perry 5:34

Sure. So a collaboration agreement is between two authors, or an author and an illustrator. And it basically spells out the responsibilities, and duties, and obligations of each person in that relationship. So for example, you have two authors writing a book–who’s going to be writing the chapters? Or if we’re reading a nonfiction book, who’s going to be writing the proposal at what parts, etc, etc. A release agreement is more like a permissions agreement–it’s like a third party license. So if you’re going to use someone’s work in your own work, you would contact the copyright owner and ask for a permissions. It all depends. Sometimes if it’s traditional publishing, then they’ll have the form for you. But you may have to come up with a form. And that’s why we’re here–to help with that. And yeah–you would contact the copyright owner. And more than likely, it’d be for a fee. Sometimes you get lucky, and the copyright owner is just happy that you’re going to include their work–just as long as you give them permission. So it all depends, but that’s the general difference between them.

Stephanie Chandler 6:43

And what you mean by that–say, for example, you want to use someone’s photo in your book, or print their poem in your book, then you’re asking for permission. And they need to sign something that gives you that right, because you always want everything in writing, right?

Joe Perry 7:01

Yes. So the lawyer, or the agent, or yourself–you’d be drafting a license. So it’s a grant of rights license. So that copyright owner owns that poem, for example. And then you’re requesting to use it. So they will grant you–likely–a non-exclusive use to use that in certain territory, for certain print runs, etc. You can go down the line in terms of what they’ll want, in terms of coming up with the fee for examples, but those are types of things that go into consideration for that. So those are the general main differences.

Stephanie Chandler 7:18

Perfect. And so that dovetails nicely into a question about fair use. I mean, this is probably one of the most common questions I hear. So can you explain what fair use is, and when authors should get permission to use someone else’s work in their books?

Joe Perry 8:08

I wish I had another half hour just to explain. But I hope I can explain it in just a few minutes here–just the nuts and bolts of it. So fair use–it basically means there are certain uses, in certain ways, that you could do without getting the permission of the copyright owner. It’s stated in Section 107 of the Copyright Act. And there are generally four factors that courts look at to determine if your use would be fair, but there’s sometimes other factors in addition to those four. For instance, bad faith–if you’re just doing the wrong thing, that’s going to go against you in determining whether your use is fair. But the thing to keep in mind is that it is very fact dependent. And it’s basically on a case-by-case basis.

As the saying goes–you don’t know if something is fair unless you bring it to court. And most people don’t want to do that. No one wants to spend that much money, and no one has the time to do that. But there are certain instances where you may have to look at fair use as a viable option. If you’ve, for instance, asked somebody for permission, and they’ve said no. Or you’ve tried to contact the copyright owner, and you just can’t get a hold of somebody, so that may be your only viable option here if you really, really want to use something. And of course, the other option is just to not use it at all. But let’s just assume that you want to. So then, getting back to the four factors–the courts will look at first, the purpose–why are you doing this? There are certain purposes that are favored, that are actually stated in the statute. For example, criticism and research. But just keep in mind that–just because maybe you’re a scholar, and doing research in criticism, it’s not a blanket statement to say that, ‘Oh, just because you’re doing that, it’s just going to automatically be fair use.’

I just want to state that the courts look at all four factors, and then make a decision. But the big thing in the purpose factor is– courts look at whether use is transformative. And basically, what that means is that you’ve transformed the work–you’ve given it new meaning, essentially. So in our scholarly example, you would comment on the work that you’re taking from. That would be a transformative use. Now, the court also looks to see if your purpose is commercial. Now, generally speaking, it’s not favored. However, just like I said for the transformative blanket statement, you can’t say that everything that’s commercial is bad, because then nothing presumably would be fair use. Facts matter here, context matters–how you’re using it, why you’re using it, etc.

So that brings us to the second factor, which is the nature of the work. Courts look at whether the work that you’re taking be as creative in nature, or its factual nature. So for instance, a textbook may be more factual in nature, compared to if you want to use song lyrics–that’s creative in nature. And courts are generally more favorable towards factual works, because they want to disseminate facts into the world. That’s the whole point of copyright law–to advance the arts and sciences. And getting facts out there helps us do that. So the courts will also look at that.

Then the third factor they look at–how much are you using? Qualitatively and quantitatively? And there’s sometimes a misconception that you say, ‘Oh, I’ve only used 5% of this or 10% of this.’ It doesn’t really matter. There’s no real bright line rule. But again, it all depends. There’s a famous case from the Supreme Court that basically said that a magazine used 300 words–I believe it was 300, don’t quote me on that. But I’m almost positive that’s what it was. 300 words of President Ford’s memoir. They basically had scooped another magazine to give the first serial rights. And what had happened was–the court looked at it and said, ‘Well, yeah it’s only a couple hundred words. But what you took and published was, ‘the heart’ of the work.’ It’s the whole reason why people wanted to buy the book in the first place. So again, context matters. I’m sure you can see the pattern forming here.

And then the last factor is the effect on the market. You have to see what you’re taking–you’re going to take away a license from the copyright owner. And that’s where you have to sort of do some research. Is it available for license? Is it available for purchase? And then, this is where it actually goes back to factor one. Because then they’re basically asking why you’re using this–if you’re doing it for research, that may be okay. There may not be a huge licensing market for that. But if it’s for commercial purposes, then it may have a big factor on the license market. So all that to say, the courts look at all these factors. And I know it’s a lot of legalese thrown at you at once. But that’s why we’re here–to help writers go through this vague statute that has just caused a lot of headaches for not only lawyers and publishers, but legal scholars as well. So that’s why we’re here. And I hope I have explained it in a nutshell in a few minutes.

Stephanie Chandler 13:44

That’s really helpful, but I do have one quick follow up to that. So what if you just want to share one or two lines and say, ‘According to XYZ book,’ and then quote one or two lines–do you need permission for that? Or is that acceptable?

Joe Perry 14:03

I mean, technically I’d be a bad lawyer by saying you could go do that with. Just being a lawyer, I just want to say that if you’re going to use third party permissions, technically you should always get permission. But for one or two lines, again–it all depends on where you’re taking it from. It all depends on who the author is–are they going to care? There’s a whole risk analysis that goes into it. Is there a chance that you’re going to get sued for those one or two lines? So I don’t want to say yes, I don’t want to say no. I’m just going to say it depends on the situation.

Stephanie Chandler 14:42

Great. Thank you. And so I often get asked, also, about whether an author can trademark or register a copyright protection for their book title. But most titles aren’t protected this way, right? So can you explain how titles work? And if there are ways to protect them from being used by others?

Jen Chen Tran 15:03

So titles are not usually protected under the Copyright Act, because the Copyright Act really applies to works of original authorship in a fixed tangible meaning, and then a book title doesn’t meet that definition or threshold. So it really doesn’t matter how creative or original your book title is–the Copyright Act most likely will not give it protection. Now on the other hand, there might be a way to protect it. For instance, if it’s part of a brand name, or trade name, or slogan, which falls under trademark law. So oftentimes, these brand names, trade names, slogans—even names of individuals, at times can, be protected under unfair competition and trademark law, which is a whole different can of worms. Completely different process.

A lot of people don’t understand that it is a completely different process to register a trademark versus registering a copyright. To register a trademark, not only do you have to do your due diligence, and make sure that the trademark is not being used. But also, it’s an adversarial process. It’s a persuasive process in which you have to convince the trademark office that you deserve to have this trademark. So again, titles are generally not protected unless it falls under a trademark protection.

And another thing that a lot of people don’t understand is that the trademark comes into existence the moment you use it. But you don’t actually have to register them–you can’t actually register them, in fact, until you use it in conjunction with their goods or services. So it’s a little tricky. If you have a brand, and you want to get trademark protection–certainly if you use that brand name, or even a slogan–if you’ve gotten protection for it, you could potentially use it and have that be protected. But in general, copyright does not extend protection to book titles. So that’s just something to think about. And I also want to say–for authors working with traditional publishers–don’t feel married to your title or subtitle, because most likely it will change. So a lot of authors get really hung up about their titles. But just know, if you’re working with a publisher, most likely, it’ll change based on feedback from the marketing and sales teams.

Stephanie Chandler 17:19

And you may or may not like what they come back with.

Joe Perry 17:27

Can I just add one thing?

Stephanie Chandler 17:29

Sure, go ahead.

Joe Perry 17:29

So I think the other thing to think about too–you can go ahead and try to trademark your title. But I just think from a risk standpoint, and just from an economic standpoint, if you have the same title as 20 books, I think it’s going to be very, very hard. And a lot of times a single title gets trademark if you have secondary meaning. Basically, that means you have a certain notoriety. So for example, Harry Potter. Everyone knows Harry Potter. Series can be trademarked as well. But so that’s just something to think about as well. You could go ahead and try to do it–especially if you’re trying to build your brand, you’re trying to build merchandising. But if it is just one title, it may not be worth the headache.

Stephanie Chandler 18:11

Yeah, and this whole thing about the brand–one way that I’ve heard authors deal with this is to file a business name, right? As the same name as their book. And create it into a brand. Therefore, to justify a trademark–Jen is that something that you would recommend, or suggest would be a better way to go about it?

Jen Chen Tran 18:34

I mean, I think it depends on your goals as an author. And a lot of authors use books to market themselves, and it’s just one part of their overall brand. So if you’re trying to build a brand, and using the book as a marketing tool, then it may very well make sense to do that. It’s definitely a lot more of an involved process to go through trademark registration. As Joe mentioned, it’s more expensive too. So it’s really cost benefit analysis to figure out if it’s worth your while.

Stephanie Chandler 19:03

And then that’s an excellent point, because it’s $50 to register a copyright if your manuscript and probably a couple $1,000 to write trademarks. Excellent points. Okay, let’s talk about traditional publishing contracts. I’m traditionally published. And I remember when I got the first contract, and my eyes bulged out of my head. They’re massive. So what are some key terms authors should look for in a contract, or maybe plan to negotiate when they’re discussing a book deal?

Jen Chen Tran 19:36

I think Joe and I are gonna both answer this question because it’s really involved. And a lot of authors get so excited when they get an offer–or a publication–from a publisher, that a lot of them are just kind of like, ‘Oh, I’ll just accept whatever terms come along.’ And obviously as agents and attorneys, we will tell you don’t do that, right? Because you have the most negotiation power at the beginning when you’re getting the offer. So it’s really, really important to understand the contours of a publishing contract. Just remember, most everything is negotiable.

If you have an agent, they’ll know exactly what clauses, with what publishers, they can negotiate. Probably the most important is the grant of rights. And that’s basically what rights you’re giving to the publisher–what exclusive rights you’re giving the publisher. So basically think of copyright law as a bundle of rights, you’re holding a bunch of pencils. This is actually how my IP professor taught it to us in law school. And basically, you’re giving away some of the rights, but keeping some of the others. So you’re giving the publisher the exclusive right to publish the book.

But the questions are–where are they going to publish it? Are they the type of publisher that has good relationships with foreign territories? And can they have the capability to publish the book in Polish, for example? So that’s something to think about when you negotiate the rights, either via your agent or by yourself. Do you want to give them the rights to publish the book in all languages throughout the world? Or do you want to limit it to, for instance, North American English rights only. So territory is one of those things that you definitely need to think about. At our agency, we have a dedicated foreign rights agent that–she’s been in the game for a long time, so she knows exactly what books will sell to the foreign and in what territories. And that level of knowledge, I think, is extremely helpful.

And one of the benefits of working with agencies is to have that foreign rights reach. Also reserved rights–like what rights do you want to keep in your bundle, right? Really, really, really important. I think Joe will agree with me. Film and TV–you almost never want to give this right away. Not only is it lucrative, but you can lose a lot of creative control if you give the rights to the publisher, and you’re not happy with how they handle it. Audio is another point of contention–audiobooks are only becoming more popular. So are podcasts. So I think audio is a point of contention, because a lot of big five publishers are actually trying to retain audio now and hold on to audio rights. Because again, they can be lucrative. So that’s just sort of a broad, quick and dirty overview. But you want to think about your rights broadly and understand what rights you want to give away and which ones you want to keep. And then Joe–did you want to talk about royalties and other things?

Joe Perry 22:30

Sure. So actually, I was going to talk about advances. And also how that relates to handing in your manuscript, because they’re sort of interrelated. So just for the basics of advances–some publishers, if they’re smaller, they may have one advance–one lump sum–when you sign your contract. But for the majority of them, they’re sort of spaced out. In terms of–you can be paid half, paid in thirds, or even now, today, paid in fourths, believe it or not. So you get a portion upon signing, a portion upon when the publisher deems your manuscript to be satisfactory in form and content. And then lastly, upon publication. And more recently–because I said the 1/4 portion–it’s after publication. But generally speaking, it’s usually halves or thirds.

The one portion I wanted to speak about was the second part, which is when the publisher deems your manuscript satisfactory in form and content. You will see in your agreement that a lot of things interrelate to each other. So your main deliverable for your contract is handing in your manuscript, making sure you abide by all your representations and warranties. So I tell my authors, if you’re not violating copyright law, you’re not violating privacy, First Amendment, etc, you hand in your manuscript–your job is essentially done, from an editorial perspective.

What you want to make sure is that what you hand in is satisfactory to them. Now, if you’re going to hand in something that’s 10 pages, and they ask for a 100,000 word novel, of course that’s not going to fly. So there are certain things that you want to make sure that you get in writing from the publisher to protect yourself. The work–when it’s accepted–you want to get that in writing. Because that hinges upon you getting that second portion of the advance. And you also, at the same time, want to get something in writing as to why it’s not accepted, and giving you time to revise– usually 30 to 60 days.

What you also want to do–because things happen–is try to get a First Proceeds Clause. If your manuscript doesn’t get published, the only thing that you have to get back is the advance, and nothing more. And you want to try to do that by–the only thing that you’re paying back is the proceeds that you get from the second publisher that you obtain. Publishers are hit or miss on this, just because it’s context dependent–at least in my opinion, in my experience. And they’ll usually only accept something like this if you timely deliver. I think they’re willing to work with authors if they really just do their job. Like I said–hand in your manuscript, do the right thing, they’re more willing to. But if you’re just handing in, like I said, 10 pages–or you’re four months late, then there’s not much that you can really do for that.

Stephanie Chandler 25:41

Wow. Great stuff. Those contracts are so complicated. And it really helps if your agent is an attorney, or your attorney is also an agent, by the way. So that’s why you guys are so valuable. In the couple of minutes we have left, are there any other final tips you want to leave us with?

Joe Perry 26:02

The number one thing I would say–and I’ve dealt with this for a couple of my clients recently–I feel like there’s this fear that the minute they get their contract, they just want to sign it, and they don’t want to rock the boat. Because they fear that the publisher is just going to take the deal out from underneath them. So I would say it’s okay to negotiate–publishers expect that. And I would say that–if the publisher was mad that you were negotiating, I would say that’s a red flag to begin with. They likely just want you to sign, and I’m sure it would be a terrible contract. So I’d say just be patient. And don’t just sign something right away. You will regret doing that.

Jen Chen Tran 26:45

And then to speak on that point, I think a lot of people in the publishing world–they’ll just ask someone in their family that happens to be an attorney to review their publishing contract. And whenever I hear that, I cringe to be honest, because it’s a very specialized area of law. And if you’re not an attorney that has negotiated publishing agreements, you might not understand some of the terms of art that are in a publishing agreement. You might not understand what clauses you have leverage over, in terms of negotiating.

So I think it’s really important for any writer out there to understand that–if you hire a lawyer, make sure it’s somebody that actually has experience in publishing law, or somebody that has experience in the entertainment industry more generally. And I actually come across this issue all the time, because when I sign clients at my agency, I basically tell them, ‘Hey, make sure you have an attorney go over our agency agreement and make sure you’re comfortable with it, because this is basically–hopefully–going to be a long term relationship. And I want to make sure you’re comfortable with the agency agreement.’ But of course, there are some authors that are just like, ‘Oh, I asked my uncle–he’s an attorney, he does personal injury law.’ No, no. Ask someone who has some experience. I think it’s just really important to advocate for yourself, and to really make sure you’re protected when signing with an agent, when signing with the publisher, when signing a collaboration agreement. And the best way to do that is to have either an agent or an attorney that’s on your side, that understands how to best protect you.

Joe Perry 26:58

I wholeheartedly agree.

Stephanie Chandler 27:16

That applies to a lot of things in publishing, by the way. ‘My sister–the English teacher–edited my manuscript.’ Or, ‘my nephew–who’s in graphic design school– designed my book cover.’ They may have some skills, but that doesn’t mean they understand the intricacies of book cover design and visual point of interest, and all the rules behind the Chicago Manual style. So anyway, I’m really glad you guys emphasized those points. You both offer some services. Tell us about those, and how our listeners can connect with you.

Joe Perry 29:12

Sure. So you can connect with me–first, I have a Facebook page. The Law Offices of Joseph J. Perry, PCA. I write a lot of different blog posts. I have a weekly newsletter that’s on there. And same thing on Twitter–you can contact me at @perrylaw1. You can also go to my website, josephperrylaw.com. Basically, in publishing law, I do all types of publishing related agreements–drafting and negotiating them, whether you need an agent, you’re talking to an editor to get your book edited, self publishing, hybrid publishing, audio books, ebooks, collaborations, ghost writing options–basically everything you can think of in publishing. Love to help authors–especially first time authors. Pre-publication review for fair use and libel. I help with copyright registrations. And recently, Jen and I have been helping publishers with their publishing agreements as well. So that’s another feather in the hat.

Jen Chen Tran 30:20

Yes. And thank you so much for having us. Really excited. Joe, I actually started a side hustle consulting business called Dynamic Book Pros earlier this year, where we help writers with their book proposals. Joe, I believe, exclusively represents nonfiction. I do mostly nonfiction with select fiction. But we really wanted to help writers that kept coming up to us and asking us for help with proposals. So we basically created a business to do that. And I also do consultations on the publishing side. If you want to reach me, you can email me at info@jenchentran.com. If you want to follow me on Twitter or Instagram, my handle is just my name–Jen Chen Tran.

But basically, we’re just here to help. And I think there’s so much misinformation out there, that it’s really important to kind of continually educate yourself, and to listen to awesome podcasts like this one to bone up on your information base on copyright and other intellectual property matters. Which can be really confusing, honestly. And Joe and I will continue to give webinars on these topics, so please don’t hesitate to reach out if you have any questions at all.

Stephanie Chandler 31:32

You two are always so generous with your information, and fun to talk to. Thank you so much for spending time with us today.

Jen Chen Tran 31:39

Thanks.

Joe Perry 31:39

Thank you so much for having us.

Carla King 31:41

And thank you to our listeners for joining us today and every week. For a list of guests and topics just check our schedule on the site, use your favorite search engine, or better yet, sign up for our mailing list at NonfictionAuthorsAssociation.com.

Quotes from our guest

“I know it’s a lot of legalese thrown at you at once. But that’s why we’re here–to help writers go through this vague statute that has just caused a lot of headaches for not only lawyers and publishers, but legal scholars as well.” -Joe Perry

“I also want to say–for authors working with traditional publishers–don’t feel married to your title or subtitle, because most likely it will change. So a lot of authors get really hung up about their titles. But just know, if you’re working with a publisher, most likely, it’ll change based on feedback from the marketing and sales teams.” -Jen Chen Tran

“And a lot of authors get so excited when they get an offer–or a publication–from a publisher, that a lot of them are just kind of like, ‘Oh, I’ll just accept whatever terms come along.’ And obviously as agents and attorneys, we will tell you don’t do that, right? Because you have the most negotiation power at the beginning when you’re getting the offer.” -Jen Chen Tran

“But you want to think about your rights broadly and understand what rights you want to give away and which ones you want to keep.” -Jen Chen Tran

“The number one thing I would say–and I’ve dealt with this for a couple of my clients recently–I feel like there’s this fear that the minute they get their contract, they just want to sign it, and they don’t want to rock the boat. Because they fear that the publisher is just going to take the deal out from underneath them. So I would say it’s okay to negotiate–publishers expect that.” -Joe Perry