Replay Podcast Interview: Steve Friedman 02/22/2023 - Book Marketing for Introverts

Steve Friedman – Book Marketing for Introverts

Nonfiction Authors Association Podcast | February 22, 2023

‘…Only in the last maybe 10 years or so have I realized [being introverted is] a blessing. There’s so many strengths that we have that others don’t have. And our strengths need to be in the room. They need to be in the social hall, they need to be in the meeting rooms, they need to be in the writing community as well.’
-Steve Friedman

About Steve Friedman

Steve Friedman is an ambitious introvert, championing the journey for introverts to become their best selves.

He wasn’t always that way, but years of struggle, introspect, and practice has enabled him to triumph. He embraces his passion to guide others to learn about introversion and accelerate their own journey to reach their own dreams.

After publishing his award-winning memoir, In Search of Courage, in 2020, Steve is excited to share The Corporate Introvert: How to Lead and Thrive with Confidence in the fall of 2021. He engages with introverts through his books, website blogs, quizzes, and other resources, as well as community engagement as a speaker and mentor.

Nonfiction Authors Podcast: Steve Friedman

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Show Notes

Links

In this episode…

Common introvert strengths.
The definition and importance of ‘marketing with integrity.’
The difference between stretching and leaping out of your marketing comfort zones.
Steve’s favorite tactics for introverts for book marketing.
Advice for introverts who are considering pursuing podcast guest opportunities, and how to prepare for those opportunities.
Advice to authors who might be facing thoughts of doubt or comparison.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the interview series for the Nonfiction Authors Association. Today’s session is with Steve Friedman and we will be talking about book marketing for introverts. I’m Carla King, your host, and I’m happy to have you with us today. This interview will last only 30 minutes and you can find the replay on our Nonfiction Authors Association website and social media platforms including YouTube, and wherever you listen to podcasts.

This week enjoy a Top Replay from the archives.

Steve Friedman is an ambitious introvert, championing the journey for introverts to become their best selves.

Hey, Steve. Thanks for joining me today.

Steve Friedman 2:24

Oh, it’s my pleasure. Thanks, Stephanie. It’s an honor to spend some time with you, especially on the day when my second book launches. And especially with the NFAA, because as you said, it’s a community for me, and it’s kind of my writing home. So I’m looking forward to our chat today.

Stephanie Chandler 2:41

You’ve just been a standout community member. I know you listen to our podcasts, you participate in the group. So it’s really fun to watch how your own author career has evolved with time, and how much different your launch is going to be. So we’ll talk about some of those tactics in a minute. But I wanted to go through some of the practices that you’re using. So you’ve identified some common introvert strengths. And this excites me because I have to say, I used to think of introversion for myself as a disability–now I view it as a total superpower. So tell us about some of the common strengths you see.

Steve Friedman 3:21

So I can certainly relate to your last statement. Because for me–for most of my life, I felt like it was a curse. And only in the last maybe 10 years or so have I realized it’s a blessing. There’s so many strengths that we have that others don’t have. And our strengths need to be in the room. They need to be in the social hall, they need to be in the meeting rooms, they need to be in the writing community as well. But it took a long time, and a long road, for me to get to that point. What I realized was–some of the things that I did, but I didn’t think were special–I looked around and found that a lot of the other people–at work in particular–didn’t practice them. So I thought I was kind of quirky. But now I realize–these are strengths that the teams that I worked with really needed–to help them to excel.

So some of the key strengths that are not common in every introvert–we’re all different–but in most introverts are things like preparation. So really thinking about events that we’ve got coming up, whether it’s meetings and networking, small or large. Social conversations, publishing a book–they’re all things that take some preparation. Extroverts may be able to go by the seat of their pants, and they just kind of think on the fly. That doesn’t really work for most of us introverts. And so I think learning about that and allocating time to prepare has made a world of difference.

Second one I would share is listening and observing. So contrary to what a lot of people think, especially when they were in corporate meetings and saw some quieter people perhaps on the sidelines–listening is learning. And so if we give ourselves space and time to just observe, then usually we come up with some unique perspectives that others don’t. And then we feel comfortable to share those, and it makes a difference in the way the meetings go, or the decision making,

Creativity–oftentimes, many writers are introverts. Many painters and other people that are creative in various different ways are introverts. And surprisingly, that trait is not only helpful in those kinds of hobbies–or solo endeavors–but they’re also very helpful in the corporate world, which actually desperately needs more creativity. And so finding that as a strength and leaning on that in different scenarios makes a difference.

And the last one I’ll share is thoughtfulness. So, I mean, we’re all thoughtful. But I think introverts tend to be very introspective. So they think a lot about things maybe too much–ruminating on the past, worrying a little bit about the future. But also thinking in greater depth, oftentimes, about relationships and situations. And what that brings is usually deeper relationships. So they may not be as many relationships, but they’re deeper relationships that help build community, especially for people like us writers. So those strengths are things that I think–once we embrace them and practice them, then we can find ways to use them in our everyday lives.

Stephanie Chandler 6:38

Well said. I love that. Really, really good focus. So you believe in marketing with integrity, which just jumps out at me. Integrity is one of my greatest values. Tell us what you mean by that?

Steve Friedman 6:51

Well, for me, I think it means so many things. But it’s a phrase that I didn’t really have until I started working on my first book, and marketing my first book. And like many writers–especially new writers–we’re inundated with all these people–podcasts, and books, and speakers that insist that, ‘Oh, you must do this in order to sell books. And you have to do that. And this is how I sold 50,000 books in a day.’ And all these different formulas. And it’s overwhelming.

And as a new writer, it’s tempting to say, ‘Well, then I must do these sorts of things.’ But really, the integrity aspect of it for me is not just about making sure I’m doing things that are legal and moral, which is certainly very important. But also doing things that just feel right and fit well with who I am.

And so I think each writer needs to find that space where we feel comfortable. It doesn’t mean we aren’t stretching ourselves, but that we’re doing things that–we can sleep well at night feeling like it’s working for us, and that there’s integrity involved with how we present ourselves, our book, and our message. And so I oftentimes go back to that phrase when I’m thinking about something. I do listen to a lot of podcasts and read a lot of books on book marketing, because I think it’s important for us to learn and consider different options. But at the end of the day, I think it’s really valuable for us to filter those–with our own sense of values and strengths–to determine what we actually spend time on.

Stephanie Chandler 8:24

That’s interesting. I was curious how you were going to tie that to marketing. So your personal integrity. So maybe there’s a tactic, like going on Facebook Live, that just feels like something you absolutely don’t want to do. Your point is then, you can either stretch if you feel comfortable stretching, or you can just decide that’s not a tactic for you and do something else. Is that what you’re saying?

Steve Friedman 8:46

Right. I mean, there’s so many different tactics. And so it really ties back to what we talked about at the very beginning–understanding what our strengths are, what we really enjoy, what we think we’re really good at–is a great starting point. And then figuring out, ‘How can I use those strengths in my marketing aspect?’ And so many of us, certainly, on the call today, are writers by nature. And we like to write.

So for me, that was where I started with my marketing. I wanted to have a website, I wanted to write guest blogs, I wanted to get things out through the written word–that’s what I was really most comfortable with. But then it was also, ‘How can I stretch myself?’ So a lot of people will say Facebook Live–get out in front of a bunch of people and speak. And some people love those sorts of environments, and other people do not. And for me, those are not the most comfortable environments. So rather than force myself to do it, I kind of have put myself on this journey of, ‘I might get there one day, but I’m working through my own plan of using my strengths, and then stretching a bit.’

So a lot of people will talk about, ‘We have our comfort zone, and I’m gonna leap outside of my comfort zone and do this.’ And I personally have found when I leap out of that comfort zone, it’s very scary. And it oftentimes doesn’t work really well. If I stretch my comfort zone–so I’m using my strengths in different ways–then I feel like I can do it. I’m more confident in it, I bring up a lot more successes, which builds further confidence. And as I stretch, then I feel more comfortable to say, ‘I’m going to stretch a little bit more.’

And podcasts–today’s discussion is a perfect example–a year and a half ago, I’d never done a podcast. Never really envisioned I would do podcasts. However, this year, I’m doing a couple of dozen podcasts. But it all started with that first one, and just trying to stretch myself a little bit, and build on that. And so I think it’s just thinking about what we’re most comfortable with. Pushing the limits a little bit, and continuing to do that, until we get to the point where we feel like, ‘I’ve kind of pushed it to the point where I feel like I’m getting the most out of that without tying myself up in knots sometimes.’

Every marketing strategy is not for everyone. And we need to feel comfortable to make a choice on what we want to spend our time with and what we choose to pass on, at least for now, so that we can have more focused marketing efforts.

Stephanie Chandler 11:19

Oh my gosh. I’m flashing back to my friend Carl, who I’ve talked about many times. We’re in a mastermind group together. And one day, I got a package in the mail from Carl, and I open it, and it’s a webcam. And this was like four years ago, five years ago. And I’m like, ‘Why is he sending me a webcam?’ And then I open the note and it says, ‘If I’m going to do it, you are too. Get over yourself.’ Okay, he’s right. And yeah–I was really resistant to dealing with video online. And today it’s gotten a lot easier, but I had to stretch. I had to stretch. And this is the way the world has gone since then, right? So we have to embrace it if we’re going to do any online marketing.

Steve Friedman 12:08

Yeah, definitely agree with that. I think stretching is important. Stretching–I call it stretching kindly, stretching with some compassion. So we’re going to stretch and do new things, but we’re also going to treat ourselves well, and not put ourselves in such a position that we’re miserable. I mean, writing is a joyous sort of activity. I love to write and I love to get my message out there, and engage with other people. If it becomes miserable, then I’ve got to really ask myself if that’s really what it’s all about. And so I give myself the opportunity–or the self compassion–to say, ‘Some things are just not things I’m ready to tackle right now. There’s many other things that I feel quite anxious and excited about working on, especially with my second book, that can take the place of some of the other things and help me deliver connections with other people.’

Stephanie Chandler 13:04

Wonderful. All right, let’s dig into those tactics. So what are some of your favorite tactics for introverts for book marketing?

Steve Friedman 13:12

Well, I would lump them into–for me, especially but I think for many introverts–into two areas. One that might not be surprising, and one that perhaps is. The first one is writing itself. So as a writer, we’re probably very comfortable to write. We’re trying to practice our writing all the time and improve our craft. And so how can we leverage that? And we’ll talk about that in a second.

And then the other one is community. So first, on the writing. I mentioned it a little bit earlier, and I think you’ve mentioned it many times. Websites are really critical for writers. And I felt like it was a great opportunity for me to dabble in my very light technical skills. But to develop a brand, and to develop a forum where I could write, and practice my writing. And so I blog every week on my website. I think it’s a great way to reach out to other people and share the message. I also think it’s a great way to practice.

So there’s often times that I’ll do social media, or I’ll do blogging on topics that may eventually find their way into the book. But I get to practice some approaches, get a little bit of feedback from the social media world on certain topics, which helps me to refine what eventually might find its way into a book. So writing blogs is a great way to do that.

Guest blogging–it’s really just a minor extension of that, but trying to reach out to other forums that have audiences that are similar to my target audience, and offer to do a guest blog with them. And generally, most websites are looking for material. And interesting material with different twists, And I think I bring that to the table. And so I’ve developed a lot of opportunities to share my message through guest blogging.

Also, kind of in the area of the written word, are things like endorsements and reviews, which many might feel uncomfortable to ask for. But it’s really just writing a pitch. And it’s an opportunity when we’re writing to write the pitch, practice it, ask somebody else to read through it. And just make sure, again, that it’s marketing with integrity. But it’s an opportunity to connect with other people who really support your message. And so asking for endorsements, and asking for reviews of the book by utilizing the subscribers we build through our website, and other people that we meet through the community that we’ll talk about, are great ways to use and practice our writing skills.

The community aspect might surprise people, because a lot of people think that the stigma around introversion is, ‘Oh, introverts don’t really like to be in groups of people. They’re antisocial.’ And I think that’s a horrible myth of introverts. Yes, introverts oftentimes want to re energize with a little bit of time by themselves. But we too have struggled through COVID, and struggled through situations where we can’t have that mixture of people. It’s just that introverts will tend to prefer to do it in smaller groups, maybe smaller time frames, and familiar settings. But we want to, and we enjoy that interaction.

And writing, as we all know, writing is can oftentimes be a very solo endeavor. So the opportunity to build community is really important for every writer–even for introverts. I mentioned at the beginning that NFAA is kind of my writing home. And it is my community. I lean on NFAA for ideas and input. I find my graphic designers, find my coaches and the like through NFAA. And it’s my community. I’ve also found podcasts, and I find endorsers and reviews, oftentimes through that community. And then I think it’s just a great opportunity to leverage the community. So it’s not a huge community. It’s like when we go to networking events. So the extroverts are probably out there collecting dozens of cards. I’m not going to collect dozens of cards, but I think I’ll make a few really keen relationships that I can build on over time. And those people are the ones that invite me to be a guest blogger, or will invite you to be on their podcast. And then they’re happy to endorse your book, and they’re happy to provide a review. So it’s really building that community, and finding a home that you can learn from, and express yourself, and find support throughout the whole writing process.

Stephanie Chandler 17:50

Wonderful. And you know I’m an advocate of–first of all blogging, thank you for saying that. I think that’s so important. And then community, I think, is really important. Also where your target audience is, right? So finding your audience community is just as valuable.

Steve Friedman 18:10

Yeah, I think that’s true. And so it’s reaching out and connecting with them. But probably the first step–even before we write the book–is to understand what is that community? And where are they? And what do they like to do? And so I think that’s actually a pretty enlightening exercise that everybody–including introverts–can oftentimes excel in. And it’s just having a little bit of time and thinking about, ‘Who is that writer?’ And somewhere along the line, somebody said, ‘Envision that writer, or that target audience. And think about who that reader is.’ You might even have a name of somebody, or a picture that you can put up next to your desk. And so, throughout the writing and marketing process, to think about that reader, and try and make sure I’m connecting with them–both through the book, and through the conversations afterwards.

Stephanie Chandler 19:00

Excellent advice, Steve. So this is your second book, and we were chit chatting a bit before we got online about how your marketing approach is so different from your first book. Tell us about that. What’s changed in how you’re launching this book?

Steve Friedman 19:16

Some things have stayed the same, but so much has changed. My first book was a memoir, which I find it to be–it was a very introspective part of my journey, which I personally needed to go on. And I felt like there was an opportunity to share that story with other introverts who have struggled through family or work life. And so that was an important book for me. But I was new at writing. Probably when I first thought about writing, I never really thought about publishing, and certainly not about marketing. And if I had I might not have ever written the book.

So when it came time to market, first I was swayed by a lot of these other people online that we talked to about earlier. It took me a while to find my grounding of–what did I really feel comfortable with? By that time, I kind of missed the boat on podcasts for my first book. And didn’t really work myself up to a level of comfort to do podcasts, which I think is a great way to meet our target readers where they are. And so that I’ve been doing a lot more in my second book. But also the community that we talked about is just deeper. Some of the same people that supported me in the first book are supporting my journey in the second book. So we’ve been able to have more opportunities to collaborate together and to work on things that they’re working on, and help me on some of my items as well.

So that deeper relationship has brought me new avenues to get my word out–online conferences, some speaking engagements, and just some connections with new audiences that I really hadn’t connected with before. Somebody I was talking to recently said, ‘We can write a great book, but ultimately, we have to get it in front of other people and other readers.’ So whether we’re extroverted or introverted, we have to find our way to get out in front of the people that would be most affected by our writing. And so that has been a journey for me–I’ve really enjoyed learning more about it and connecting in new ways this time around.

Stephanie Chandler 21:30

I love this. And so that makes you want to dig into a couple things. First of all, I’m thinking about our introverted listeners, who maybe think about doing a podcast and it just turns their stomachs over. I mean, is that a big stretch? What is your advice on how to be able to do that?

Steve Friedman 21:51

I can certainly say–for those that are out there that are worried about it, or have said they wouldn’t do–it is a big stretch for many of us. And it really scared me to death. I think in a moment of weakness, I signed up for one, and it was more of a local podcast with somebody that I had known before. We weren’t close friends, but I knew that person. It was a 30 minute discussion about writing. And so what I did was–I talked to the person, I listened to their podcast–probably three or four of their podcasts. So I really understood how it went, what my role would be, and what the role of the host would be. And then I prepared–literally for days. And I probably over prepared, but it helped me to feel more comfortable that I could do this.

When we finally started to have the podcast, I realized that a lot of it is just relaxing and getting into the flow. So if we approach it as, ‘I’ve got this speech I want to give, and so I memorized it,’ then oftentimes we get a little stuck because the conversation goes different ways. Or we forget some of our points, and then we freeze like a deer in headlights. So for me–once I realized in that first podcast, that we’re just having a conversation, and it’s about things that generally I’m familiar with my own writing journey, or what’s in my book, it became a conversation that was really enjoyable.

Afterwards–I’ll certainly admit, as an introvert, I was exhausted and needed a little bit of alone time–but I reflected on that, and felt like I felt so proud of what I had done, but also enjoyed the process. And so I decided, ‘I’m gonna go sign up for another couple.’ And that just got the ball rolling. So if you’re thinking about it, and you’re not really sure, don’t aim for the Today Show, aim for something that’s perhaps local. Listen to it a number of times, talk to the host. Get a feel for it, prepare. But don’t over prepare. And chances are, you’re going to have a great time with it. And it’s going to open up a new avenue for you to get your message out.

Stephanie Chandler 24:11

And you said a key thing there–preparation. You prepared–maybe overprepared. To me, preparation removes fear, right? So if you feel fully prepared, you’re going to feel a lot calmer going into that situation. Then I’m sure you found the more you do, the easier they get, right?

Steve Friedman 24:29

Right. Yeah, definitely. I kind of talk to myself about–I dip my toe in the water. And if I do, chances are I’m going to enjoy the ripples that come from it. Because it just boosts your self esteem. It does get your message out, it broadens your audience. But you don’t get there if you don’t try. And so it’s finding those safe ones to start with. And then you can stretch out and find you bigger podcasts and other forums that you can talk about your book with others.

Stephanie Chandler 25:04

What about writers who maybe struggle with, ‘But there’s other experts in my field. And who am I to be claiming expertise in my topic?’ What would you say to them?

Steve Friedman 25:17

That’s probably the one thing, honestly, that held me back in my first book. I was writing a memoir, and I thought, ‘I really want to write it. I’m not sure that I will sell any, or want to market it, but I really want to write it for me.’ But as I got to the marketing stage, I was kind of split. Because on the one hand, I realized that there are many introverts out there that–as I found through my blogging and social media–can really connect with the story. But I was like, ‘There’s thousands of memoirs out there. Who’s going to want to read my memoir?’

And a lot of that mindset really changed when I was actually on a podcast shortly after that. And it was a podcast called the Imposter Syndrome Files. And it was talking exactly about feeling–that I’m an imposter, whether in the workplace or as a writer, or somewhere else. And really talking that through, and how we can get our message out there. And I think that, especially as we write a book, we become an expert.

There are many people out there that will probably write about almost every topic. There’s certainly other people that write about introversion. And they have great perspectives. So we don’t have to be the only ones that are writing. And there may be people that have more experience than we do. But it’s our perspective that is unique. Each person’s perspective is unique, our story is unique, and how we can share that and connect with other people is unique. So I think we need to give ourselves a little bit of a break and be proud of the journey that we’ve come through. And if you’ve written a book, you probably have a lot of stories and things out there that other people really want to connect with. We just need to stick ourselves out there a little bit.

Stephanie Chandler 27:05

I love that, Steve. This has been so interesting. What would be the top one or two takeaways you want our listeners to take from today?

Steve Friedman 27:14

Well, we started at the beginning–to me, one of the mantras that I live by is–don’t try and change yourself, but be yourself. And even in my short writing journey–I started writing about four or five years ago–I’ve changed from being so tempted to change myself, to just being myself and recognizing my strengths, and how can I weave those into everything that I do? And as an introvert, I have realized that the community is so important, and it provides that support. It provides different perspectives. And it helps us on our marketing journey as well. So I think those two things have made a world of difference for me, and hopefully other introverts will recognize that in themselves.

Stephanie Chandler 28:08

Fabulous. So Steve Friedman, your book is The Corporate Introvert: How to Lead and Thrive With Confidence. It launches the day this interview airs. Where can our listeners learn more about you and your book?

Steve Friedman 28:21

The best place is on my website–beyondintroversion.com. You’ll find my weekly blogs, links to learn more, or order my books. And also have a couple of quizzes on there, which we didn’t really talk about. But what a great way for anybody–and including, certainly, introverts–to grow their subscribers–to put out a quiz that really intrigues the reader, and gives them some insightful information about, in this case, introversion. So we’ve had a lot of people that have taken the quiz. And it’s been a great way to learn more about the topic itself, and to connect with other people. So please, if you’re interested, take a look at my website beyondintroversion.com. And look forward to seeing people there.

Stephanie Chandler 29:10

Very good. All right. Steve, thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate you.

Steve Friedman 29:15

My pleasure, Stephanie. Thanks a lot.

Carla King 29:18

And thank you to our listeners for joining us today and every week. For a list of guests and topics just check our schedule on the site, use your favorite search engine, or better yet, sign up for our mailing list at NonfictionAuthorsAssociation.com.

Quotes from our guest

‘The integrity aspect of [marketing] for me is not just about making sure I’m doing things that are legal and moral, which is certainly very important. But also doing things that just feel right and fit well with who I am. And so I think each writer needs to find that space where we feel comfortable. It doesn’t mean we aren’t stretching ourselves, but that we’re doing things that–we can sleep well at night feeling like it’s working for us, and that there’s integrity involved with how we present ourselves, our book, and our message.’

‘Every marketing strategy is not for everyone. And we need to feel comfortable to make a choice on what we want to spend our time with and what we choose to pass on, at least for now, so that we can have more focused marketing efforts.’

‘…Whether we’re extroverted or introverted, we have to find our way to get out in front of the people that would be most affected by our writing.’

‘I kind of talk to myself about–I dip my toe in the water. And if I do, chances are I’m going to enjoy the ripples that come from it. Because it just boosts your self esteem. It does get your message out, it broadens your audience. But you don’t get there if you don’t try. And so it’s finding those safe ones to start with. And then you can stretch out and find you bigger podcasts and other forums that you can talk about your book with others.’

‘Each person’s perspective is unique, our story is unique, and how we can share that and connect with other people is unique. So I think we need to give ourselves a little bit of a break and be proud of the journey that we’ve come through.’